Public Transit Searches

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

I went to ride the New Jersey PATH train this morning on my typical commute to New York City. They sometimes have Port Authority police officers set up to randomly search people's bags. I happen to believe very strongly in the 4th Amendment and refused their search. The officer said, "see you later buddy" and I left. The rule is supposed to be that you are not to ride the PATH train if you refuse a search. I however, went to another entrance and attempted entry there (something that I had done before with success, though not what they want you to do). Well, they recognized me this time and told me that if I tried again, I would be arrested. They asked if I wanted to tell them my name (I did not) and we had a professional but certainly not overly cordial discussion that lasted about 1-2 minutes. I announced that I would take separate transportation (the ferry terminal is right next door) and did that.

So, my question is: what are my rights in this situation? I did not want to consent to a search but I did want to ride the train. Was my second attempt to enter the train a criminal act? Are they allowed to search my person or just a bag? I certainly don't want to deal with getting arrested on my way to work, but it really feels like they are overreaching here.

And for what it's worth, this whole search process that they do is pure theater. Any determined person could find their way around it twenty different ways without even trying.

Such searches have been approved by the courts.

tranquility said:

Such searches have been approved by the courts.

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Does that mean that I can be arrested for what I attempted to do this morning? What would be the charge?

clb6 said:

Does that mean that I can be arrested for what I attempted to do this morning? What would be the charge?

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Trespassing most likely.

And/or a breach of the operator's rules (MTA, PATH, etc. all have their own individual rules of operation).

What are my rights in this situation?

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To refuse consent.

Was my second attempt to enter the train a criminal act?

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No. The officer was bluffing. They probably might have manufactured some charge (defiant trespass.), but it would not stick. "See you later pal" is not a trespass notice, and some hocus pocus ad hoc whatever a POed cop wants is not proper rulemaking and enforcement required by even the lower standard of a defiant trespass.

Are they allowed to search my person or just a bag?

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The have no power to search. The searches are consent based. If you refuse you are denied. That is what is allowed.

I certainly don't want to deal with getting arrested on my way to work, but it really feels like they are overreaching here.

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A lot of these guys are still barn dooring. There isn't much to be done about that.

And for what it's worth, this whole search process that they do is pure theater. Any determined person could find their way around it twenty different ways without even trying.

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If kabuki theater for finding some moron with a dime bag is what America thinks will allow us to go back in time and prevent 9/11, then the Constitution and common sense won't matter.

clb6 said:

I happen to believe very strongly in the 4th Amendment and refused their search.

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I also favor the 4th AM as an area of study, more power to you.

However, speaking of the 4th AM, have you ever been to the Supreme Court building in Washington, DC? I have a # of times. You have to pass through a metal detector. If this is a search, are you opposed to such to enter the building?

Since many airports have government screeners, it is practical to secure a search warrant for every passenger?

Such Administrative searches are necessary. Sure the SC has stated absent a warrant a search is presumptively UNreasonable. They have also however carved out exceptions.

Many say DUI checkpoints violate the 4th AM also.

Ever hear of a "pat down" for weapons, called a Terry frisk.

If an officer believes a detainee is armed, is it practical to call a Judge for a warrant to pat him down?

He may get killed first.

hey clb6. didnt yuou know this is a free country? (land of the free and home of the brave) deal with it

BOR said:

I also favor the 4th AM as an area of study, more power to you.

However, speaking of the 4th AM, have you ever been to the Supreme Court building in Washington, DC? I have a # of times. You have to pass through a metal detector. If this is a search, are you opposed to such to enter the building?

Since many airports have government screeners, it is practical to secure a search warrant for every passenger?

Such Administrative searches are necessary. Sure the SC has stated absent a warrant a search is presumptively UNreasonable. They have also however carved out exceptions.

Many say DUI checkpoints violate the 4th AM also.

Ever hear of a "pat down" for weapons, called a Terry frisk.

If an officer believes a detainee is armed, is it practical to call a Judge for a warrant to pat him down?

He may get killed first.

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I guess the difference at the Supreme Court is that everyone is searched. When I fly, I have contracted with a private company to provide me with air travel and understand that is part of the bargain when I do so. The random searches on public transport seem more about providing the appearance of doing something and probably as a back-door way to, as one of the earlier posters alluded to, find a dime bag.

But to me, there is no reasonable suspicion that I had a weapon and I was entering an area that my tax dollars go to support and that I had purchased a ticket to enter.

At the end of the day, it's more about the principle to me. If I lose my job, maybe I'll try and make a federal case about it.

Anyways, I imagine that any trespass charge would probably be as big a hassle for them as for me, but wanted some understanding of what was going on here. Most people are content to just let them search.

Of course the funny part is that I'm fully entitled to take my "suspicious" bag on any other form of public transport - the bus or the ferry or the commuter train.

clb6 said:

Of course the funny part is that I'm fully entitled to take my "suspicious" bag on any other form of public transport - the bus or the ferry or the commuter train.

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Right until they decide to change their business model to include searches as a condition of ridership.