2 minors searched with no probable cause...

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida
Last night my 15 year old son and nephew were walking outside at the end of our road. A sheriff going by suddenly made a u turn and pulled up behind them. He proceeded to ask what they were doing walking down the road and my son told him that he lived a few houses down. These 2 are excellent students, never in trouble, no previous records, no drug or alcohol use and were doing absolutely nothing but walking up our road.

He frisked them both, searched both of their pockets, searched my nephew's wallet, and took his cell phone and was scrolling though it, and then he searched my son. He then separated them, put my nephew in the back of the car, asking him why he was walking down the road and he told him they were on their way back to our house and then he questioned my son, who told him the same thing. He told my nephew that he found it "odd" that he was carrying around an "empty" wallet, aside from a student id card and a gift card. They are 15, don't drive yet, had no money, like any typical 15 year old's wallet. He then asked for their names, addresses and phone number, and then drove them to our door.

I then asked the sheriff if there was a particular reason that he searched them and he said no, there wasn't anything in particular. I could understand if someone just reported a crime in the area and they were out looking for someone, but that wasn't the case, did he have a right to do this? Thank youWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

If he conducted a search this would have required probable cause or consent. Obviously we cannot say whether either was present in this situation. But, depending on the time of night, could they have been in violation of curfew?

In any event if you have an issue with the officer's conduct you might consider speaking to a supervisor at the agency and ask that they look into the matter.

Of course, I agree with Carl. But, even with a complaint, it is extremely likely there will be a consent issue here. Guys with guns have a way to encourage consent.

On a side note,

These 2 are excellent students, never in trouble, no previous records, no drug or alcohol use

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Not only is there not a police data base which would describe much of this, but also there is a problem of what kids do.

I'm sure *your* kid never gets in trouble. Some kids do.

Thank you for replying. I'm pretty sure it was around 9pm-9:30pm when this happened, they went outside during half time of the game they had been watching on television. I'm not sure about a curfew for minors in our town, I didn't even think about that, but since he didn't bring that up, I'm assuming it wasn't an issue.

These kids were actually shaking when brought to our door, I think the whole frisk and search was absolutely unnecessary, whether it was legal or not. My husband and I have the utmost respect for law enforcement, but sometimes you have to wonder if some use misuse their authority. Thank you.

and to clarify what I meant about never getting into "trouble", I mean with the law or at school. There are no perfect children. He gets in trouble for minor things such as not doing chores, etc. I know in this day and age, it is hard to believe that there are still well behaved, respectful, young people out there, and yes, they were very respectful to the officer, he informed me of that when he dropped them off.

Lu del, Tranq hinted at a question (he didn't actually ask it so that's probably why you didn't answer it, heh): at any point did the officer ask if it was okay to search? And if so, did the kids consent to it? If that is the case, then a need for a warrant or probable cause kinda goes out the window.

The Occultist said:

Lu del, Tranq hinted at a question (he didn't actually ask it so that's probably why you didn't answer it, heh): at any point did the officer ask if it was okay to search? And if so, did the kids consent to it? If that is the case, then a need for a warrant or probable cause kinda goes out the window.

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Hi Occultist, thank you for replying. I'm not sure if you are implying any sarcasm with your question, (the "heh") kind of leaves that impression. If it wasn't intended that way, I apologize. Not being disrespectful, I've come here to get advice, and I assure you I haven't left out any details intentionally. What good would that do, I'm trying to give every detail so that any advice given would be as accurate as possible based on the information I've given here. You are right, I didn't realize he was asking a question so that is why I didn't supply an answer. First, the officer didn't ask, he told my son to get to the front of his car after frisking both boys, he then proceeded to go into my nephews pockets, only after asking them if they had any weapons on them, which isn't exactly asking permission to reach into their pockets. They replied "no", they did not have any weapons on them. Then the officer removed my nephew's wallet and cell phone from his pocket and searched through both of these items. He then put my nephew in the backseat and then told my son to keep his hands in the air, and then searched his pockets, again not asking permission. Again, both cooperated, one, because they were terrified, and two, because they were raised to respect adults, no matter what the case. This officer repeatedly asked both boys separately why they were "really" walking down our street. I believe he could have at least provided them or us with a valid reason for the frisking, search and almost 45 minutes of interrogation, when they were literally 60 seconds away from our front door. Couldn't he have driven them home right after patting them down and verified that they really lived there, and then did whatever he felt he had to do, especially after calling in both of their names and finding out that neither had any priors or record or warrants out on them?

Now, I have to ask. If it were myself or my husband or a neighbor walking down the street after dark, and we were stopped and asked the same question and told him that we were walking home, a few houses away, would they do the same thing? That's the scary part, it could happen to anyone of us. Would I have allowed myself to be frisked and have my purse searched? I honestly say I doubt it, unless I was given a VERY probable cause for him to search me. Both boys innocently assumed that once he asked them what they were doing and had searched them and checked them out with dispatch, that they would be allowed to walk home, honestly believing that they had done nothing wrong, one has the right to walk down any street at any given time without being subjected to this kind of act, or so I thought. I realize that there may be times where this kind of treatment is absolutely necessary, but I think there would have to be EXTREMELY legitimate circumstances at that given time to warrant that kind of action. I do appreciate everyone's advice and opinions.

Here's how it happens. Cop sees a couple of kids out at night. They're just at the right age to be looking for trouble, the streets are dark and the boys are kicking the can down the road as they're walking.

Kid 1: Bible study was great tonight!

Kid 2: Yea! I LOVE the sermon on the mount!

Kid 1: Word.

(Cop pulls up behind them.)

Cop: What are you boys doing out here this fine evening?

Kid 1: Nothing.

Cop: Nothing at all?

Kid 2: No sir.

Cop: Then (while walking forward with his hand on the butt of his firearm), I guess you wouldn't mind if I search you?

Kid 1: I guess not. (cop searches)

Kid 2 says nothing as the cop searches.

Kid 1 was legally searched based on express consent. Kid 2 would probably, based on the totality of the circumstances, have given implied consent for the search.

I would make an appointment and talk to the officer's supervisor or chief.

csi7 said:

I would make an appointment and talk to the officer's supervisor or chief.

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csi7, thanks for replying. My husband is meeting with the supervisor this afternoon.

Thanks to all who responded.

and Tranq, I can see your mind seems to be already made up, that "all teenagers at that age are trouble and delinquents", that's fine. If it happened to you as an adult, would you honestly just let the cop frisk and search through your personal belongings without giving you a substantial reason as to why he felt it necessary, I find it very hard to believe you would. Just because someone is a minor, doesn't automatically make them a liar and a criminal and I find it very hard to believe that most of you just assume he had the right to do what he did, where do our rights begin and end? It was not a curfew issue, there had been no crime reported, no "be on the lookout" call. I don't have 8 years of law school under my belt, and I may not know everything there is to know about our civil rights like some of you, but I can plainly see that anything said here from here on out, will be in favor of this bully of a cop who was probably bored on a Saturday night and decided to pick it out on two boys half his size who "truly" were not doing anything wrong, except walking home. We've always had great respect for the law, but after this incident and reading some of these forums, you have to wonder if some let their authority go to their head and abuse their power.

It's sad to think that so many have this attitude about our young society and assume they are all evil with nothing but bad intentions on their mind, maybe that is why some kids do go bad(?) Your post was humorous Tranq, but even in your little skit, there doesn't seem to be a probable cause and...once again, he never asked permission.

We will get all the answers we need today, again, thanks to all for your advice, even the negative minded ones


Here's my version of how it happens....

A person is out for their nightly walk..

a cop pulls up behind them

"Where are you going and coming from" the cop asks

Person responds "I'm out for my nightly walk"

Cop begins to frisk person, then, without asking, searches their person

Person asks cop "What the heck was that for?"

Cop answers, "I'm law enforcement, I can do whatever the heck I want"


*Age does not matter, what's wrong is wrong*

I suggest you speak to your school about a refund...

Zigner said:

I suggest you speak to your school about a refund...

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wow, good one, YOUR school would be proud! Yes, I'll be sure to do that tomorrow oh mighty wise one



"You can lead a boy to college, but you can’t make him think." I really love this quote.



Here I was trying to keep insults and ridicule out of it and keep this an intelligent conversation, but I should have expected this from a FREE advice site, and "zigner", I sure hope people don't actually pay you for advice like that in your real job. Your signature says it all! I don't think you really need to clarify that you're not a lawyer, it's very obvious by your sarcastic, useless information you have given in other threads, that you are not a lawyer, but maybe you will be when you grow up!

I didn't come here to argue with anyone or to be ridiculed, but it's obvious that as soon as you disagree with even one part of what the top dogs say, the pack mentality comes into play and things get ugly, and then the insults begin. Put your big boy pants on and grow up.

There are actually some interesting facts that came to light this afternoon regarding this officer, according to the Deputy that my husband met with. I won't bore you with what was said, let's just say that yes, sometimes authority is abused, and in more than one occurrence with this particular officer. You wouldn't be interested because it wasn't the outcome that most of you wanted to hear.

To all of you who are truly here to help and give useful advice, I applaud you and am sorry that you have to share the spotlight with those that are here to make themselves look and feel superior by attempting to insult other people's intelligence without actually saying anything intelligent at all, unless you consider childish insults intelligent and productive.


To all of you that come here looking for good advice and get insulted or ridiculed because you are not of such high intelligence as some responders here think they are, good luck. You'd better come here in your armoured suit because the second you don't agree with them, you'd better run or fight, lol!


We got the results we needed today in a very professional manner, and everyone behaved like mature adults, imagine that.

Okay, I'm done here, so have at it, add your snide, sarcastic, sometimes humorous little comments, edit your posts, and carry on with your holier than thou, infinite wisdom. I have no interest or desire to come back here to read them, I'm sure it would get pretty redundant. I've obviously hit a sore spot with some here, so I would expect you to keep your comments coming and post that last dig. Sorry I won't be giving you the satisfaction of reading any of it, I know that must take all the fun out of it, but I'm sure you'll find your next prey very soon. I never even knew of this site until yesterday, and most likely will never returno I hear the applause, lol), I now know where to go to get real answers. Have a nice day, have a nice life.

and most likely will never return

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Last edited by lu del; Today at 12:39 AM.

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I guess she did come back..

The OP is satisfied so he'll not be back. He's sure the cop is in the wrong, even though he doesn't know why.

What is required for a frisk?

Reasonable suspicion, which is less than probable cause.

What is required for a search?

Probable cause a warrant or consent.

Teenage kids cause trouble when they're bored. It's been in all the movies. Cops like to talk with such kids when they're out at night without parental supervision. Believe me when I say I agree cops can be bullies. I don't even disagree the cop was a bully here. But, all I have is second hand facts from a parent of a 15 year old. Having been a 15 year old, I suspect the story is a bit more complex both in the law and in the facts.