Public defender or not?

Greetings, my family is in a real jam here, we have no money, and my mother (a caretaker) was arrested a month ago on charges of larceny and exploitation of the elderly, attempting to steal 1.2 million dollars from her employer.

I naturally believe in her innocence, she's been working for the same person for close to 10 years, and I don't understand how can this be happening. I guarantee that she did not do it, I know everyone must hear this a lot (yes I too watch my fair of episodes of Law and Order) but she is innocent, and I'm afraid that they're going to try to use her as a political case more than really finding the truth and exonerating her of these ridiculous charges, my mother it's been living within her mean for so long, that she cannot possibly have been or have stolen anything. Anyways enough emotional ranting ...

I'm not sure what's going on, but I'm really not happy with the public defender's approach to this, it may be procedure or not, but it seems to me like she (the PD) just doesn't give a crap, she went to talk to her once for less than 5 mins. it just seems like she should be doing more, I think. I truly believe in the system and don't want to loose faith in it, but it sure is testing it, I always though that better a paid (cause the public defenders are paid by the state, correct?) than a pro-bono, but given her attitude I'm just not sure and my mom is most important, she REALLY doesn't belong in Jail or prison, she on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

Can some please explain 2 thing: 1) what procedure is, after the state has filed and 2) how could I approach an attorney(s), or researching the possibility of doing some pro-bono or even trading work with me, I'm a graphic artist, I can render services (ads, brochure design, TV Spots, website) for payment, I really don't want it free, I'd rather trade services or pay, unfortunately as a freelancer I'm struggling.

I'm really desperate here, I hate to see my mom deteriorate in there, specially knowing that she's innocent.

Your help in this is greatly appreciated, please no information is irrelevant, anything helps, as we're not familiar with the legal system and its inner-workings, and need to know everything there is on this matter.

Thanks again.

Pedro1

What US state did this happen in?

In addition to letting us know what state you are in, can you advise what specific charges (statutes) she has been charged with violating?

And what is it that you believe the attorney should be doing that they are not? Understand that prior to hearings and court appearances, there may not be a lot to do. Private attorneys have to play 'show and tell' because they have to justify their billable hours. Public defenders don't tend to waste time making motions that are worthless, so while they may not look busy to you, they may be working behind the scenes. Or, there may be nothing to actually do just yet. Serious crimes take a long time to work through the system and not a lot happens.

You are unlikely to find a quality attorney willing to provide a defense in exchange for services. You can ask around, but I would think it unlikely. Many attorneys have office staffs that have to be paid. A case like this could involve research and analysis and in such a matter the attorney would have to pay their people and contractors from their own pocket. I doubt that you could render $5,000 to $10,000 (or more) in such services that the attorney might need.

If your mother is not happy with her attorney she can ask about obtaining another one through the same office. Or, she can engage a private attorney if she can afford it. The best bet might be to try and communicate with the attorney and have your mom ask him what he is doing and what she can do to help. PDs tend to be very busy, so it might take a few calls to get a hold of him, but it may be that there really is not much he CAN do just yet.

What stage of the process has she been through? Has she been arraigned yet? (That's where she goes before a judge and enters a plea.) I imagine she has been arraigned because she has assigned counsel. Without knowing the state, it is hard to say what the next step might be as the exact court process varies slightly by state.

divona2000 said:

What US state did this happen in?

Click to expand...

Divona2000: Florida

CdwJava: as far as charges please forgive me, if not right, but is just that I feel we've been given the runaround, no one really knows anything cause the state hadn't filed but she was arrested on:
LARC-GRAND 1ST DEGREE 100K DOLS MORE OR LEO SEMI
CRIMES AGAINST PERSON-EXPLOITATION OF ELDERLY 100K DOLS OR MORE
But I've called several times to the Defense attorneys office and no one know anything, and they keep telling me that cause the state hadn't filed, not that it filed, now she's not in the system yet ... OMG ... this is crazy that all this couls take this long.

Her attorney went to see her for less than 5 minutes, and just asked her where's the money, my mom explained that she doesn't have any money, she never did, she has (really) no idea where this accusation came from. She runs everything for this old guy and she has been for the last 10 yrs.
So it just feels like they should be doing something ... or not? My mom can't afford counsel otherwise we would have most likely have gone with one, and not cause I don't have faith in the Public Defenders, cause why hog one up if someone else could use it.

As to where in the process we don't have a clue, I'll explain briefly what's happened chronologically:
1) Oct 23 she get's taken from the house she works, arrested
2) Nov 23 she has a court date, they don't take her to court (cause there's too many people, thats what they told me anyways) the I was there not knowing she wouldn't her name came up, Judge ask about states position they said Filed, next name .... So I don't know what they mean, and obviously no one really cares to explain anything.

That's the extent of my knowledge about what's going on. Other than that I've called, no one knows, and now the one person temporarily assigned to my mom case (which she was incredibly helpful at first) won't even return my call even to tell me to piss-off. So we are genuinely lost.

Guys please I hope not, but perhaps my writing come across a bit rough, but I'm trying to convey what's happening. Forgive me in advance if I may sound a bit cynical and .... I'm not sure what the word is .... but believe me I'm not I truly appreciate the help that the system is providing my mom, I'm glad we are part of a system that does, I don't know what's happening and I hate the feeling, I love this woman and I don't want anything bad to happen to her.

And what I know is a stretch me trading work, but most firms don't have designers in house, I just thought that is money they are going to spend anyways, we could bargain the work, like the old days, I have something they could use, so do they ... but by no means I'm diminishing they're work or anything, I wish I had the money, so please no offense to this.

Thanks again in advance.

Unfortunately, she is currently in the midst of the court process and it's still in pre-trial, apparently. Not being familiar with the vagaries of the FL system I am not sure what might come next for her ... not sure what kind of hearing is held where the state says "filed," and the defendant does not offer a plea. Unless that was simply a probable cause hearing or some such thing, I'm at a loss there.

About all mom can do is continue to try and reach her attorney. And keep in mind that all because YOU don't see anything being done does not mean nothing IS being done. The defense attorney has no obligation to give you a blow by blow report of their activity - nor your mom for that matter. At this point there may not be a while lot that can be done.

Her options are few. If she hasn't the money for her own attorney, she has to either struggle on with this attorney or look into another public defender.

Yeah but we wasn't even in court, so they aren't giving her a chance to plead guilty or not?

I don't get it why give her a court date then?

I understand that her lawyer may be doing something, but should't they at the very least keep her informed of what's going on?

Here is a site about the process:

The Florida Felony Process and Sentencing: Florida Arrest, Trial, and Prison Terms in Criminal Felony Cases

has she been arrainged? That is where she if formally presented with her charges. She would enter a plea at that hearing. If so, has there been a bond hearing? Don't know about Florida but sometimes the arraignment and bond hearing take place together.

I can not stress enough the importance of having her own paid attorney. As you can already tell it is hard to even get the p.d on the phone. Tyring to work together will be hard with no communication. I cannot put into words how much more can get done with some money. The p.d.'s caseload is almost always huge. To give each case undivided attention is almost impossible. Some simple cases that will be quickly plea bargained is where they are most effective. If your mom is going to fight this than a complicated case that will need motions filed in a timely manner and much legal research than a good ambitious private attorney will be invaluable. If you can somehow prove some conflict5 of interest and have the judge appoint a private attorney than that may be the best you can do without money. At least you will be out of the p.d.'s office and will have a private attorney to call and hopefully get some time and cooperation.gdlck.

justalayman: I'm not sure if she has, in a quick few lines here's where she's at: she got arrested, then she had a court date a few days ago (roughly 30 days later) they (the Jail) didn't take her to court, Judge said my mom's name, some lady said, filed, she put it aside, and move on to the next case ... and I that's the extent of it. Oh just remember that she does have a $50K bond.

dave33 said:

I can not stress enough the importance of having her own paid attorney. I cannot put into words how much more can get done with some money.

Click to expand...

I hear you Dave, and in a way I feel the same way, except I have some faith in the system and how is structured with the PD's and all, but I cannot help to feel, that scares the crap out of me, that I know my mom is innocent and she may get convicted on something she didn't do, and just cause of money, that really sucks. I know the PD's are probably overworked, and they just cannot give the same attention to all cases, heck it's been proven that multitasking is inefficient. But when I'm $89K in debt (Thanks to the economy), property value just plummeted, and can't get a loan, it feel like either I should just give up and trust the system, cause I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, if you know what I mean.

Thanks all.

Pedro1 said:

justalayman:


it feel like either I should just give up and trust the system, cause I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, if you know what I mean.

Thanks all.

Click to expand...

I always look at criminal charges from this perspective: hey, I did it (even if I did not). Now I want to win my case by the state not being able to prove my guilty. From this perspective, you then need to attack the state's case. They had enough evidence to file charges and have the court process begin & it does not look like you are well versed in the law (I have only the basic understanding of the elements of the crimes of which your mom is being accused of) so you should recognize that your mother may actually be guilty. Unfortunately, your mother is not going to tell you all the facts behind the case (why would she? I think she would be happier if you thought the state railroaded her as opposed to you knowing that they may have not). She can begin discovery without an attny (an attny would likely continue discovery once obtained). I would not simply put my trust in the system?? .. innocent people get convicted everyday because they do nothing to prepare for trial. A trial is a vetting process to get to the truth and it requires work and effort. And most PDs don't file charges w/o evidence of wrongdoing; you have no idea what went on really & you likely will never know. It is not you responsibility to pay for your mother's defense, its hers. It looks like you can only provide emotional support for her & thats very helpful in itself. Good luck.

And most PDs don't file charges w/o evidence of wrongdoing;

PD's don't file charges at all. Prosecutors file charges. PD's defend.

Pedro, please disregard Dumbo here - we've renamed him Wrongallthetime.

As to where in the process we don't have a clue, I'll explain briefly what's happened chronologically:
1) Oct 23 she get's taken from the house she works, arrested
2) Nov 23 she has a court date, they don't take her to court (cause there's too many people, thats what they told me anyways) the I was there not knowing she wouldn't her name came up, Judge ask about states position they said Filed, next name .... So I don't know what they mean, and obviously no one really cares to explain anything.

Click to expand...

so, how does she know her bond amount if she has never been in front of a judge?

Either you are not aware of some actions that have gone on or things are a bit odd. You don't get tossed into jail for a month without a plea hearing, an arraignment, or something.

Sounds like it's time for the family to scrape together some money for a lawyer.

It sounds to me as if the mysterious hearing was to determine whether the State has filed formal charges yet. The charges (called the information) are what the State will seek to prove and the PD must defend.

Good luck

Hey guys, thanks all for your valuable info, I guess she had gone before a Judge where he placed a 50k bond on her 2 charges, we now now that the state filed 1 charge Grand theft, I spoke with the PD yesterday (finally!) talking to her even though she doesn't know anything yet, game a bit more trust, but indeed we need to prepare, she was able to expedite a bond reduction hearing, so tuesday this week, we should be facing that hopefully we can do something about that, we'll see.

to wronsetimes: I'm not sure how you were brought up, but in my family we stick together and try not to lie to each other, I believe my mom, and that's that. And I know is not my responsibility, but no wonder this world is all jacked up, by that comment I guess you'll let your rot in jail before you'll help get her out? To each his own ...

I'm in the search for a private attorney in the meantime, that'll either work with me ... or perhaps we'll have no choice but to stay with the PD.

one thing to be cautious of in your situation; when hiring an attorney, you need to determine who the client is. If your mother; you can guarantee the fees or even pay them but you will not have the right to any confidential information or to even be kept informed unless the attorney and your mother agree to it. You cannot contract on your mothers behalf (without a POA anyway) but you can interview and pay a retainer fee for her.

Just be aware of who the attorney is working for and what responsibilities that puts on the attorney. Make sure all parties understand the relationship so there is no misunderstandings later that cause problems.