Court appointed attorney

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina. I could not afford an attorney so the court appointed me one. After my case was resolved the court ordered attorney charged me for his services, is this a common practice?, if so it kind of defeats the purpose. If I have to pay anyway then I should at least have the choice as to which attorney will sue me in open court for the services/showing up and saying "I am a lawyer". Hell, I could have done that and saved 400 dollars.

Tell your court appointed attorney to stuff his bill up his nose!

The information given is sparse, but you are obviously talking about defending criminal charges that upon a conviction could involve incarceration as punishment. Which are the factors that trigger your 6th Amendment right to be represented by an attorney. Thus, the court appointing the lawyer and supposedly at the expense of the county and not you.

I do not advise that you follow latigo's advice.

Court-appointed attorneys are NOT free attorneys. If you pled guilty to charges or were found guilty of the charges filed against you, you can be held responsible for reimbursing the State for the value of all services provided you by any attorney appointed by the court. In North Carolina, the costs to be repaid, and the method of payment, are determined by rules adopted by the Office of Indigent Defense Services. For further information, you can check out the North Carolina Indigent Defense Services Act (IDS Act) at http://www.ncids.org and you can look over http://www.nccourts.org/Forms/Documents/1197.pdf.

Although all states are constitutionally required to provide legal representation to poor defendants, and legal counsel is paid for by the state to those who qualify, states can recover from indigent defendants convicted of a criminal offense attorney fees and expenses, plus costs for support services and experts, incurred during the course of representation.

It is often, too, a condition of probation that a person convicted of a crime remain employed and that part of the wages earned from this employment be used to pay back to the state any court costs and fines and the costs of any counsel, public defender or appellate defender that was appointed. This is true in North Carolina and in most (if not all) states.

court appointed

Thank you Quincy, I still think I should've been better informed of this practice, I could have plead guilty myself and more than likely had the same outcome just 397 dollars cheaper.

quincy said:

I do not advise that you follow latigo's advice.

Court-appointed attorneys are NOT free attorneys. If you pled guilty to charges or were found guilty of the charges filed against you, you can be held responsible for reimbursing the State for the value of all services provided you by any attorney appointed by the court. In North Carolina, the costs to be repaid, and the method of payment, are determined by rules adopted by the Office of Indigent Defense Services. For further information, you can check out the North Carolina Indigent Defense Services Act (IDS Act) at http://www.ncids.org. and you can look over http://www.nccourts.org/Forms/Documents/1197.pdf.

Although all states are constitutionally required to provide legal representation to poor defendants, and legal counsel is paid for by the state to those who qualify, states can recover from indigent defendants convicted of a criminal offense attorney fees and expenses, plus costs for support services and experts, incurred during the course of representation.

It is often, too, a condition of probation that a person convicted of a crime remain employed and that part of the wages earned from this employment be used to pay back to the state any court costs and fines and the costs of any counsel, public defender or appellate defender that was appointed. This is true in North Carolina and in most (if not all) states.

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Then please help me with this:

“(a) Upon the court's determination that a person is indigent and entitled to counsel under this Article, counsel shall be appointed in accordance with rules adopted by the Office of Indigent Defense Services.
* * *
(b) Fees of assigned counsel and salaries and other operating expenses of the offices of the public defenders shall be borne by the State.
* * *
North Carolina General Statutes Article 36 Section 7A-452. Source of counsel; fees;

Ed, yes, it could be true that you would have had the same outcome even if you were not represented by legal counsel, and I agree that you should have been informed of the possibility that you might have to reimburse the state for your attorney's services.

I would normally suggest that you have an attorney review the attorney's fees and all of the facts of your situation, but I am not sure that you would be interested in hearing that type of advice at this point.

And latigo, yes, upon a finding that a person is indigent and entitled to counsel, the court will appoint counsel and the state will bear all fees of assigned counsel and salaries and other operating expenses. But the court can also order the defendant to reimburse these fees and costs, the amounts and method of payment of which would be determined by the Office of Indigent Services, and the reimbursement of costs and fees can also be a condition of probation.

quincy said:

Although all states are constitutionally required to provide legal representation to poor defendants....

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The federal constitution only mandates a court appointed attorney for indigents IF the govt. will seek jail time. If before hand the state says we will not subject you to jail upon conviction, just a fine, then the state does not have to provide counsel. Of course a state constitution can afford greater protection.

Quincy, I have also read of states which require at least partial reimbursement of counsel fees unless it will create a hardship. From past research years ago, I know FL is one.

Thanks for the clarification of my post, BOR. You are right that the potential for jail time would be a condition to having a court appoint counsel.

Michigan is a state that generally requires reimbursement, as well.

quincy said:

. . . . . And latigo, yes, upon a finding that a person is indigent and entitled to counsel, the court will appoint counsel and the state will bear all fees of assigned counsel and salaries and other operating expenses, etc.

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Fine. Then it must be conceded that the attorney assigned to represent the indigent criminal defendant is paid directly by the state and not the defendant.

But here there is no mention of the OP being in receipt of, or otherwise aware, of any recoupment, contribution or co-pay order issued by the North Carolina court?

Nor does he mention being notified by the Office of Indigent Services as to the terms and conditions whereby he is to reimburse the state.

All we are given to know is that he has been billed directly by his court appointed counsel and not the Office of Indigent Services. And I have to seriously question that the attorney serves as a collecting arm for that agency. Or that a receipt from the attorney for the $400 would be credited by that agency against any existing court recoupment order.

Now if you think that it is the practice in North Carolina to have the assigned attorney recoup the state’s costs, rather than through North Carolina’s Office of Indigent Services, then I think the OP should be entitled to view some authority to that effect before parting with his $400.

It does not necessarily have to be conceded that the attorney assigned to represent the indigent client is paid directly by the state and not the defendant, but there is no indication from ed, really, as to what form this attorney's bill was presented.

A court appointed attorney will fill out a form stating his expenses, the NCIDS will review the form and decide if any payment should be made to the attorney by the defendant, and how, and a judge can order the defendant to make the payment if the IDS review supports it.

There was also no mention by ed rattlehead, by the way, as to whether he is serving probation, which also may have as a condition a direct repayment to the attorney for the services rendered.

At any rate, the county/state can seek reimbursement from a defendant for the costs incurred as a result of providing the defendant with court appointed counsel. And, if ed wants to check out the legitimacy of the bill, he can contact the IDS through the website address I provided. In fact, it would probably be wise for him to do so if he questions it.

But, whatever the case and under any circumstance, a correct response for ed to make to any court appointed attorney, who is requesting in some form payment for services rendered, is not, nor should it ever be, to "stuff his bill up his nose." I think ed has seen enough trouble already, without creating additional woes.

ed rattlehead said:

Thank you Quincy, I still think I should've been better informed of this practice, I could have plead guilty myself and more than likely had the same outcome just 397 dollars cheaper.

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400 bucks for legal representation? Thats cheap..but you get what you pay for ... if he did not get you off, I would not pay him ... I dont pay professionals whose work does not result in good outcomes (doctors, lawyers, clergy,etc.)

wrongsometimes said:

400 bucks for legal representation? Thats cheap..but you get what you pay for ... if he did not get you off, I would not pay him ... I dont pay professionals whose work does not result in good outcomes (doctors, lawyers, clergy,etc.)

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Oh man. You've been dropped on your head alot, haven't you?

You must get sued a lot.

Isis1 said:

Oh man. You've been dropped on your head alot, haven't you?

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No, I just dont like paying for services that do me no good. I always tell people that if they dont solve the issue they will not get paid. I would not pay a mechanic to fix my brakes if he cannot, would you?