Were my rights violated by the University of Notre Dame Security Police?

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Indiana

My Story:

For a fair reason, my friend and I were brought to the NDSP police station. We are wondering if our rights were violated in these cases at the station:

1. The police told us we needed to produce, write, and sign statements. I have heard that I did not have to sign a statement of what happened, but the police told us we were required to. Is this a violation?

2. The police told us we were not under arrest. We willingly helped them out with whatever they needed. A policeman then told us he was going to escort us in his car back to our dorm. I asked if we were allowed to walk, because we were not under arrest. The police officer looked at me grudgingly and said that we were not allowed to and drove us back. Does this violate my rights as an American citizen as well?

Any help is appreciated.

Why were you brought to the police station? Were you witnesses to something, or accused of a crime?

My thought is that you had been drinking - is this the case?

Are you students at the school?

CdwJava said:

Why were you brought to the police station? Were you witnesses to something, or accused of a crime?

My thought is that you had been drinking - is this the case?

Are you students at the school?

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I was brought because I had admitted to the use of marijuana. I committed a crime, obviously. However, the police did inform me that I was not, at any time, under arrest. Therefore, I believe those two circumstances may have violated my rights, even if I did commit an illegal act (because I was not under arrest).

Yes, I am a student at the university.

You could have said no. If you had and adverse action was taken, then you can complain. Since you were admittedly guilty of a crime, I suggest you then would have been arrested and transported to the SJ County jail where you would get to set with the dregs of St. Joseph County society rather than running around with the elite of ND.

justalayman said:

You could have said no. If you had and adverse action was taken, then you can complain. Since you were admittedly guilty of a crime, I suggest you then would have been arrested and transported to the SJ County jail where you would get to set with the dregs of St. Joseph County society rather than running around with the elite of ND.

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I said I wanted to walk to my dorm, however the police man said I was not allowed to. I know and admit I was guilty of a crime, however the police told me I was not arrested. Therefore, due to my rights as an American citizen, aren't I allowed to walk home instead of being forced to stay in the car with the police man?

Also, Notre Dame has its own police force. I am grateful I was not arrested obviously, however, I am simply concerned with whether or not the policeman violated my rights in making me drive back with him instead of walking.

due to the fact you are a student and were on campus, they can exert a level of control not possible elsewhere. You might consider consulting your student handbook to see what rights you may have waived when becoming a student there.

Now, since you didn't really challenge the demand, as with so many actions by an officer; your rights were likely not violated unless you were either forced to act as directed or there was adverse action due to your refusal. Just like when a cop comes up to your car and asks if they can search it. If you allow it, there is no violation of your rights. Only if you refuse and then force you to allow it is there a violation of your rights.

and yes, I am quite aware ND has it's own police force but when you get arrested, you go to jail downtown. They can detain you on campus but unless things have changed recently, they do not have a jail on campus. I know they are constantly building on campus but the last I knew, none of the new buildings were intended to be used as jails.

I am also aware that ND has a respectable law school on campus which means there are about 550 kids running around campus that have some decent training. You might avail yourself of that asset you have right there.

Since you were not free to go and were transported by the officer, an argument can be made that you WERE under arrest. If they offered you a ride to the department and asked you to fill out a statement as to your actions, they MIGHT be able to argue consent but it would be weak.

Unless the laws with regards to Miranda are radically different in Indiana, I'd say that a Miranda issue is in play here and any admission of statements for criminal prosecution may well be vulnerable to suppression.

However, as a student, they may well have the right to request a statement from you regarding the incident or that you be subject to discipline from the university (perhaps being tossed out).

You might consider consulting legal counsel as a precautionary measure in case the university moves to expel you or criminal charges are filed at some later time.

I am also aware that ND has a respectable law school on campus which means there are about 550 kids running around campus that have some decent training.

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Awesome answer, as I am uncertain about what the OP feels was wrong.

Protip:
Without the facts, there is no issue.

CdwJava said:

Since you were not free to go and were transported by the officer, an argument can be made that you WERE under arrest. If they offered you a ride to the department and asked you to fill out a statement as to your actions, they MIGHT be able to argue consent but it would be weak.

Unless the laws with regards to Miranda are radically different in Indiana, I'd say that a Miranda issue is in play here and any admission of statements for criminal prosecution may well be vulnerable to suppression.

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ND is a Catholic University, so a I am greatly assuming the Constitution does not apply.

BOR said:

ND is a Catholic University, so a I am greatly assuming the Constitution does not apply.

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The police there are duly sworn by the state of Indiana and thus a government entity, so it will have to.

Issues with regards to the student's rights and obligations to the university is another matter, but the issue of their transportation and being compelled to write out a statement (a confession) is very froggy.

CdwJava said:

The police there are duly sworn by the state of Indiana and thus a government entity, so it will have to.
.

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Yes, they are an "official" police agency with all the rights, duties, and liabilities that come along with that.

justalayman said:

Yes, they are an "official" police agency with all the rights, duties, and liabilities that come along with that.

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Yes, my research now has shown they ARE "state actors" for 4th AM purposes.

They very well could have had internal private security, but should have checked 1st.

It sounds as if you were taken into custody and then released with no charges. If you wish to raise Constitutional issues there's a good chance that your case will be referred to the Dean, The Student Judicial Board, and the local DA. Both the Dean and the judi board do not need to worry about the Constitution and will treat your statements as evidence. I suspect the DA will laugh and tell the cops to keep this on campus. He won't want to get involved.

Good luck

If the personnel acted as private persons or as employees of the university and are seen to have compelled the OP and his friend to have gone with them, that is kidnapping or some similar offense (depending on IN law). They would have had no legal right to force them to go anywhere if not for a criminal detention or arrest. If the personnel acted as officers, then the OP and his friend were either arrested, or they consented to voluntarily go with them to the office to sort the matter out.

The DA is not involved if no charges are filed and no criminal activity on the part of the personnel is identified. If there are no charges then the Miranda issue is moot and it then comes back to whether or not an unlawful seizure occurred. An independent attorney would have to look at this to see what all the facts say.

CdwJava said:

If the personnel acted as private persons or as employees of the university and are seen to have compelled the OP and his friend to have gone with them, that is kidnapping or some similar offense (depending on IN law).

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I can't agree with this Carl. Unless there was a touching of the person in a compulsory way, or a threat of some sort of harm if they failed to comply, abduction would not be appropriate to charge. This is assuming they had NO authority all to transport, period.

Let's say they were not constrained by the 4th, they would have security authority to detain just as a merchant and a person who shoplifted, as an example.

They would have had no legal right to force them to go anywhere if not for a criminal detention or arrest. If the personnel acted as officers, then the OP and his friend were either arrested, or they consented to voluntarily go with them to the office to sort the matter out.

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Looking at the syllabus of Dunaway, transporting a person to a jailhouse IS an arrest, whether so stated or not as an arrest, if we equate it here to a campus police office, and requires PC, which was non disputable here, as a crime was committed.


http://supreme.justia.com/us/442/200/