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sneaky ex-wife

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C

c1ue1ess

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I have been married close to 10 years. I was the main bread winner of the house. Wife worked part time as a self employed entrepreneur. Did not make much money but as long as it kept her happy, I was okay.

Without my knowledge or content, she racked up more than $100K in debt, by playing "12 months interest free if you transfer your balance to us" game she tells me now. I am not sure which sane banker extended her that kind of credit but it is not the matter at hand now.

We are in divorce proceedings. I pulled my free annual reports from all 3 credit bureaus. Nothing related to this debt shows nowhere on my credit history. I did not sign any papers, regarding application of such credit card or loans. And to be perfectly honest, I did not see any benefit of this $100K spent as far as an improvement to the family residence, or taking up vacations, putting some money to savings. Nada, zilch...

Now it is the time to divide assets in the scope of divorce, I am expected to hold half of the pot for this debt. Even though I can't say I am religiously checking my credit history, I take advantage of annual free credit reports whenever possible and nothing caught my attention about this snowball of debt accumulating over the course of marriage

How is this fair that the court expects me to carry half off her debt burden ? Can I do anything about denying this debt legally ?

Thank you very much
 


M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
ecmst12 said:
Welcome to marriage in a community property state. Her debt is your debt.
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With very few exceptions.

If, for example, she blew all that money taking her boyfriend to Monaco, it would probably be assigned to her. But, barring that, he's going to be paying off $50 K in debt after the divorce.

The other way he may get out of it is if she files for bankruptcy - which is a very real possibility. Depending on how it is done, he may avoid owing any of the debt.
 
C

c1ue1ess

Junior Member
mistoffolees said:
With very few exceptions.

If, for example, she blew all that money taking her boyfriend to Monaco, it would probably be assigned to her. But, barring that, he's going to be paying off $50 K in debt after the divorce.

The other way he may get out of it is if she files for bankruptcy - which is a very real possibility. Depending on how it is done, he may avoid owing any of the debt.
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Well, there was no boyfriend to take to Monaco or anything like that but since she is of the type of person who can not keep friends for real, she showers people she barely know/knew with mountains of presents. At least this was the case at the beginning of the relationship, but at that time she was making a decent salary, close to mine and I did not see any problem. But even though her income dwindled over the course of marriage, habit of spending frivolously obviously did not.

Coming to the bankruptcy part; she was talking to a BK attorney and she paid $5K I believe to this guy/gal, but soon after that, about 2 months or so, she wanted a divorce. And even though I was verbally told at one time or another that the bankruptcy papers have been filed, now the word is, attorney can not file papers until the divorce is final. Which is true, as my attorney told me the same. But I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is fiction. There is no filing on any of her names filing a BK case in any CA court that my attorney could find. She is going to file BK no matter what as after divorce, she can barely scrape to live. No way that she will pay back 50K or 100K in debt. Problem is, if the judge orders me to take half that burden, as in this card balance is yours and this is hers kind of deal, even though my name is not on the loans, she will declare BK and clear her portion but whatever is assigned to me will stay with me I am afraid. Is it so ? That is my biggest worry. Is it how the debt will be distributed ? Or will we assume half of the responsibility to pay on each line of credit and when she declare the BK, all will be charged off on her because she is the only person signed off on this debt ?

Thanks again
 
LdiJ

LdiJ

Senior Member
c1ue1ess said:
Well, there was no boyfriend to take to Monaco or anything like that but since she is of the type of person who can not keep friends for real, she showers people she barely know/knew with mountains of presents. At least this was the case at the beginning of the relationship, but at that time she was making a decent salary, close to mine and I did not see any problem. But even though her income dwindled over the course of marriage, habit of spending frivolously obviously did not.

Coming to the bankruptcy part; she was talking to a BK attorney and she paid $5K I believe to this guy/gal, but soon after that, about 2 months or so, she wanted a divorce. And even though I was verbally told at one time or another that the bankruptcy papers have been filed, now the word is, attorney can not file papers until the divorce is final. Which is true, as my attorney told me the same. But I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is fiction. There is no filing on any of her names filing a BK case in any CA court that my attorney could find. She is going to file BK no matter what as after divorce, she can barely scrape to live. No way that she will pay back 50K or 100K in debt. Problem is, if the judge orders me to take half that burden, as in this card balance is yours and this is hers kind of deal, even though my name is not on the loans, she will declare BK and clear her portion but whatever is assigned to me will stay with me I am afraid. Is it so ? That is my biggest worry. Is it how the debt will be distributed ? Or will we assume half of the responsibility to pay on each line of credit and when she declare the BK, all will be charged off on her because she is the only person signed off on this debt ?

Thanks again
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The judge cannot order that part of the debt go into your name because the judge is not a party to the credit contract. Therefore, when she files for bankruptcy, its all going to go away.
 
M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
The judge cannot order that part of the debt go into your name because the judge is not a party to the credit contract. Therefore, when she files for bankruptcy, its all going to go away.
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NO, NO, NO, NO.

Let's say she owes $100,000. If the judge orders that it's marital debt, then the judge can say that he has to give her $50,000 in other assets to cover her portion of the marital debt. Or he could say that OP owes stbx $50,000 after the divorce to cover his portion of the marital debt.

Then, she files for divorce and the debt goes away, but he still owes her $50,000 - and she could file for contempt if he doesn't pay. If they properly select the assets he gives her, they might not be seizable in a divorce - so she could end up with $50 K in value and debt eliminated. He would lose $50 K.

This needs to be handled very carefully by a good attorney.
 
C

c1ue1ess

Junior Member
mistoffolees said:
NO, NO, NO, NO.

Let's say she owes $100,000. If the judge orders that it's marital debt, then the judge can say that he has to give her $50,000 in other assets to cover her portion of the marital debt. Or he could say that OP owes stbx $50,000 after the divorce to cover his portion of the marital debt.

Then, she files for divorce and the debt goes away, but he still owes her $50,000 - and she could file for contempt if he doesn't pay. If they properly select the assets he gives her, they might not be seizable in a divorce - so she could end up with $50 K in value and debt eliminated. He would lose $50 K.

This needs to be handled very carefully by a good attorney.
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This is what I am afraid of. I was the saver ant throughout the marriage and she was the big spender. I did not touch almost anything that came outside my regular salary plus overtime and saved it as a rainy day fund. She has already got a chunk of it, to leave the house we were inhabiting at the time. And I did not object to get her out of my sight.

The BK proceedings started before we decide to get a divorce and since everything was under her name, I did not play any part in the conversations with this attorney. I even suggested her to find a decent job and we eliminate the debt in a couple of years, by tightening the belts heavily. But, belt tightening is not the nature of ms big spender. She took the easy road. Would this have any effect on judge's decision on, how the debt will be handled post divorce ? Again, there is no place that my name is found on any of the debt that is going into this BK case.

And assuming the worst case, I was ordered to pay her 50K in lieu of half the debt and she turns around and files a BK on the full 100K, can I sue her to get some of the money I paid her, back ? I know, most probably the lawyers will eat up the whole amount but even if I can get 5-6K back, I am okay with that. Or there is no chance for recouping any of it ?
 
M

mistoffolees

Senior Member
c1ue1ess said:
This is what I am afraid of. I was the saver ant throughout the marriage and she was the big spender. I did not touch almost anything that came outside my regular salary plus overtime and saved it as a rainy day fund. She has already got a chunk of it, to leave the house we were inhabiting at the time. And I did not object to get her out of my sight.

The BK proceedings started before we decide to get a divorce and since everything was under her name, I did not play any part in the conversations with this attorney. I even suggested her to find a decent job and we eliminate the debt in a couple of years, by tightening the belts heavily. But, belt tightening is not the nature of ms big spender. She took the easy road. Would this have any effect on judge's decision on, how the debt will be handled post divorce ? Again, there is no place that my name is found on any of the debt that is going into this BK case.

And assuming the worst case, I was ordered to pay her 50K in lieu of half the debt and she turns around and files a BK on the full 100K, can I sue her to get some of the money I paid her, back ? I know, most probably the lawyers will eat up the whole amount but even if I can get 5-6K back, I am okay with that. Or there is no chance for recouping any of it ?
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Maybe. Or, you can try to get the court to order that you only pay the money if she doesn't file bankruptcy within 1 year (or whatever). Or you can try to get the court to order that it's all her debt since she wasted it on gifts without your knowledge or participation. Or any number of other possibilities.

Seriously, you need a good attorney.
 
LdiJ

LdiJ

Senior Member
c1ue1ess said:
This is what I am afraid of. I was the saver ant throughout the marriage and she was the big spender. I did not touch almost anything that came outside my regular salary plus overtime and saved it as a rainy day fund. She has already got a chunk of it, to leave the house we were inhabiting at the time. And I did not object to get her out of my sight.

The BK proceedings started before we decide to get a divorce and since everything was under her name, I did not play any part in the conversations with this attorney. I even suggested her to find a decent job and we eliminate the debt in a couple of years, by tightening the belts heavily. But, belt tightening is not the nature of ms big spender. She took the easy road. Would this have any effect on judge's decision on, how the debt will be handled post divorce ? Again, there is no place that my name is found on any of the debt that is going into this BK case.

And assuming the worst case, I was ordered to pay her 50K in lieu of half the debt and she turns around and files a BK on the full 100K, can I sue her to get some of the money I paid her, back ? I know, most probably the lawyers will eat up the whole amount but even if I can get 5-6K back, I am okay with that. Or there is no chance for recouping any of it ?
Click to expand...
If you and she cannot come to an agreement that the debt is off the table because she intends to file bankruptcy, then yes, you can certainly make your argument in front of the judge that she intends to file bankruptcy on that debt, and has in fact begun the process with a bankruptcy attorney.

You should certainly not agree to anything that offsets the debt with other marital assets. You should insist on splitting each asset/debt down the middle.
 
B

birdbrain53

Member
Hi

I'm in California also. I really feel your pain over this situation - my spouse racked up well over $100K of debt in his name with credit accounts in his name only. When I talked with a couple of lawyers, they said that I was responsible for 1/2 the debt. One lawyer said I *might* be able to convince a judge that his debts were his sole responsibility, but coupled with the fact that he also is unemployed, it was a long shot and I would find myself paying over 1/2 my income as spousal support and 1/2 the debts too.

I'd work hard on the "she plans to file bankruptcy as soon as divorce is final" angle. Make sure you have a very good attorney who is savvy with financial matters.

I'm not sure that California, being a community property state, would allow her to file BK while she is married without you also filing BK. Which may or may not work depending on your salary level.
 
W

wrongsometimes

Member
Sneaky wife eh? Well, she got you good on this one...but really, isnt 50K worth the price before she socked you will 1 million in debt. Not fair but it is the way it is.
 
B

Bali Hai

Senior Member
c1ue1ess said:
Well, there was no boyfriend to take to Monaco or anything like that but since she is of the type of person who can not keep friends for real, she showers people she barely know/knew with mountains of presents. At least this was the case at the beginning of the relationship, but at that time she was making a decent salary, close to mine and I did not see any problem. But even though her income dwindled over the course of marriage, habit of spending frivolously obviously did not.

Coming to the bankruptcy part; she was talking to a BK attorney and she paid $5K I believe to this guy/gal, but soon after that, about 2 months or so, she wanted a divorce. And even though I was verbally told at one time or another that the bankruptcy papers have been filed, now the word is, attorney can not file papers until the divorce is final. Which is true, as my attorney told me the same. But I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is fiction. There is no filing on any of her names filing a BK case in any CA court that my attorney could find. She is going to file BK no matter what as after divorce, she can barely scrape to live. No way that she will pay back 50K or 100K in debt. Problem is, if the judge orders me to take half that burden, as in this card balance is yours and this is hers kind of deal, even though my name is not on the loans, she will declare BK and clear her portion but whatever is assigned to me will stay with me I am afraid. Is it so ? That is my biggest worry. Is it how the debt will be distributed ? Or will we assume half of the responsibility to pay on each line of credit and when she declare the BK, all will be charged off on her because she is the only person signed off on this debt ?

Thanks again
Click to expand...
You have another big worry on top of all this, 10 years married in CA often results in lifetime alimony.
 
Z

Zippy123

Junior Member
A thought - try to negotiate with her to take all the debt and to then, post marriage, declare bankruptcy. If her lawyer knows she will get at least half the debt and that she will then file anyway, she may be willing to if you give on some other issue. Worth a shot.
 
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