CA: Divorce with me having more assets

clutchshooter · Dec 21, 2010

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Hello,

Unfortunately, I am going through a divorce possibility with my wife.

We has been married for about 4 years.

She has been a college student and supported by her parents for a while. (From a good and wealthy family). The last few months, she has been working full time with around $18/hour pay after graduation.

Myself, I am a professional banker, for about 10 years already, and I have savings , 401k, mutual funds , and a couple of brokerage accounts, which worth a lot. All of these accounts are under my own name. I also have a car under my name.

Her asset is her bmw car from her dad's gift and some savings under her own name (I can tell it is a few thousands).

The only assets under our joint names are the house (only a few thousands dollar worth of equities, and 400k loan) and a joint bank account with almost nothing in it.

I found her recently that she's been out and only came back for about a few nights a week. And, to make story short, accidently saw her with another man at a store.

Now, my question is what is the law in CA for my case? I feel like I am in a disadvantageous position with more assets. I certainly do not want to split 50/50 as I worked very hard for everything that I gained during the marriage.

How can I protect myself? I notice she might have been influenced by friends to take me to court for divorce and asset division (used to be very innocent girl)
Since CA is a no-fault state, so having her at fault and finding evidence about it won't help?

Thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

LdiJ · Dec 21, 2010

clutchshooter said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Hello,

Unfortunately, I am going through a divorce possibility with my wife.

We has been married for about 4 years.

She has been a college student and supported by her parents for a while. (From a good and wealthy family). The last few months, she has been working full time with around $18/hour pay after graduation.

Myself, I am a professional banker, for about 10 years already, and I have savings , 401k, mutual funds , and a couple of brokerage accounts, which worth a lot. All of these accounts are under my own name. I also have a car under my name.

Her asset is her bmw car from her dad's gift and some savings under her own name (I can tell it is a few thousands).

The only assets under our joint names are the house (only a few thousands dollar worth of equities, and 400k loan) and a joint bank account with almost nothing in it.

I found her recently that she's been out and only came back for about a few nights a week. And, to make story short, accidently saw her with another man at a store.

Now, my question is what is the law in CA for my case? I feel like I am in a disadvantageous position with more assets. I certainly do not want to split 50/50 as I worked very hard for everything that I gained during the marriage.

How can I protect myself? I notice she might have been influenced by friends to take me to court for divorce and asset division (used to be very innocent girl)
Since CA is a no-fault state, so having her at fault and finding evidence about it won't help?

Thank you.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

The hard, cold reality of things is that any assets that accrued during the marriage are community property no matter whose name they are in, and they will be subject to a 50/50 division.

No, having evidence of "fault" is not going to help you in a no fault state. You cannot protect yourself from a division of assets. Just make sure that you can tract any premarital assets separately.

nextwife · Dec 21, 2010

The question is NOT what assets you each have, it's what assets accrued during the marriage. Non-comingled assets brought to the marriage are generally not marital and are excluded from division. Any free and clear assets brought TO the marriage would belong to whomever brought them. Savings and checking that remained seperate and did not have marital contributions remain seperate. The premarital accrual of any retirement accounts also should be excluded. So how you handled those assets during the marriage makes a difference.

mistoffolees · Dec 21, 2010

nextwife said:
The question is NOT what assets you each have, it's what assets accrued during the marriage. Non-comingled assets brought to the marriage are generally not marital and are excluded from division. Any free and clear assets brought TO the marriage would belong to whomever brought them. Savings and checking that remained seperate and did not have marital contributions remain seperate. The premarital accrual of any retirement accounts also should be excluded. So how you handled those assets during the marriage makes a difference.

But it will require a good attorney and possibly forensic accountant to try to separate out any pre-marital funds that might have been comingled. It may not even be possible, but if the amounts are significant, it might be worth a try.

nextwife · Dec 21, 2010

mistoffolees said:
But it will require a good attorney and possibly forensic accountant to try to separate out any pre-marital funds that might have been comingled. It may not even be possible, but if the amounts are significant, it might be worth a try.

It may or may not. Premarital can be very simple.

I know I simply started with an entirely different bank and brokerage house after marriage, never placing a dime of marital funds into any prior accounts other than my day to day checking, and obviously the then 401k (although I did create a premarital record of holdings and values).

In many cases, one can simply get a statement from a given bank or brokerage house showing that Accts X, Z, & Y have had no new contributions since X date. Easy peasy.

Prior 401ks may remain untouched, as is true of prior Roths or IRAs, as one can create new and different investments with each year's contribution. Not everyone continues using all their premarital accounts after marriage for NEW contributions.

clutchshooter · Dec 21, 2010

Thanks for the replies.

Can I ask further on this statement?

"Savings and checking that remained seperate and did not have marital contributions remain seperate"

If my savings and checking accounts that is under my name has deposits from my paychecks and brokerage deposit transfers (cash-out from my stocks) AFTER marriage date, will this get tangled in the asset division also?

If my employee stocks options + stocks were given before marriage date, I assume this will be excluded from the divorce and even if I cashed them out during marriage , it will excluded. Is this correct?

LdiJ · Dec 22, 2010

clutchshooter said:
Thanks for the replies.

Can I ask further on this statement?

"Savings and checking that remained seperate and did not have marital contributions remain seperate"

If my savings and checking accounts that is under my name has deposits from my paychecks and brokerage deposit transfers (cash-out from my stocks) AFTER marriage date, will this get tangled in the asset division also?

If my employee stocks options + stocks were given before marriage date, I assume this will be excluded from the divorce and even if I cashed them out during marriage , it will excluded. Is this correct?

Any monies that you combined with your paychecks are comingled and may very well be treated as community property. Particularly if money went in and out of your account and the specific funds cannot be specifically traced.

You really need a consult with a local attorney. It sounds to me like this is something that you are not going to be able to handle on your own.

nextwife · Dec 22, 2010

clutchshooter said:
If my employee stocks options + stocks were given before marriage date, I assume this will be excluded from the divorce and even if I cashed them out during marriage , it will excluded. Is this correct?

If you merely rolled these funds into other assets in only your name, those should remain seperete. Get going collecting statements of value before marriage of proof of the source of funds for whatever you rolled them into, hopefully in your name alone.

LdiJ · Dec 22, 2010

nextwife said:
If you merely rolled these funds into other assets in only your name, those should remain seperete. Get going collecting statements of value before marriage of proof of the source of funds for whatever you rolled them into, hopefully in your name alone.

He is in a community property state. Its not going to help him if an account is in his name only. Its only going to help him if he never put any community property (ie his paycheck) in a particular account.

mistoffolees · Dec 22, 2010

LdiJ said:
He is in a community property state. Its not going to help him if an account is in his name only. Its only going to help him if he never put any community property (ie his paycheck) in a particular account.

Probably true. Most of the exceptions involve written documentation that property remained separate.

Unlike many states, CA doesn't appear to give the judge a huge amount of discretion. It appears that it's hard to even separate out assets that would clearly be separate in most states. For example, if he had an IRA worth $100 K when they married and he added to it while married, most states would allow that $100 K to be treated as separate property. It's not clear that CA works that way (CourtClerk can probably say for sure).

LdiJ · Dec 22, 2010

mistoffolees said:
Probably true. Most of the exceptions involve written documentation that property remained separate.

Unlike many states, CA doesn't appear to give the judge a huge amount of discretion. It appears that it's hard to even separate out assets that would clearly be separate in most states. For example, if he had an IRA worth $100 K when they married and he added to it while married, most states would allow that $100 K to be treated as separate property. It's not clear that CA works that way (CourtClerk can probably say for sure).

I think its already been established here that things like the premarital 401k amount, premarital home equity and things like that remain separate property in CA. However cash/liquid assets, particularly in cases where money is going in and out of an account on a regular basis, and includes both community and non community assets, is a definite problem.

nextwife · Dec 22, 2010

LdiJ said:
I think its already been established here that things like the premarital 401k amount, premarital home equity and things like that remain separate property in CA. However cash/liquid assets, particularly in cases where money is going in and out of an account on a regular basis, and includes both community and non community assets, is a definite problem.

I stated that if he rolled one investment (he was referring to stock options earned before marriage) into a different format, remaining in his own name, it stays a premarital asset. Just because he "deposited money" from the sale of stocks, for example, into a different investment form during the marriage does NOT make it marital, even in a community property state. The documentation is to prove the source of funds was non-marital to non-marital should the STBX make allegations that the investments were marital rather than premarital funds.

If I move from Merrill Lynch to Schwab during the marriage, or BoA to a local bank, it still can remain premarital. If I go out of a bond fund into a mixed fund, it's still churning the same dollars. One should not need to leave funds in a poorly or inappropriately performing investment type to keep it non marital.

I have money from the management/ownership of my rental properties (bought and mantained with premarital dollars, mostly maintained with it's own rental income) coming in and out of a specific seperate account. It is still not marital, even though money (rental income) flows in and out (repairs, taxes, maintenance) during the marriage.

CA: Divorce with me having more assets

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

clutchshooter

Junior Member

LdiJ

Senior Member

nextwife

Senior Member

mistoffolees

Senior Member

nextwife

Senior Member

clutchshooter

Junior Member

LdiJ

Senior Member

nextwife

Senior Member

LdiJ

Senior Member

mistoffolees

Senior Member

LdiJ

Senior Member

nextwife

Senior Member

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential