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Bought a product with hidden damage

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stockm3

Junior Member
I am looking for advice as to whether this case would hold up in small claims court.

I recently made a purchase off of craigslist for a steam iron - it's basically a boiler connected to an iron so the you have lots of steam to iron with. The listing person described it as in excellent condition, used only 3 times.

My wife and I went and exchanged the money/product in a parking lot, and I did not inspect it in detail but there was no immediate evidence it was broken. I took it home that night and tested it out - it worked fine.

Three days later, I was going to iron my clothes. I dumped all of the old water out (the previous owners water) and in the process heard a lot of rattling/screws loose and moving inside. I then looked at the where the cap goes on to the boiler and found that the boiler inside was not even secured. It was obviously defective or she sold me a broken iron.

I immediately emailed her and told her the situation, and that I wanted my money back. She said she would get back to me. When she did get back to me via email, she said - essentially no. I called her up explaining the situation over the phone - and she said that she believed me that I didn't do the damage, but she wanted to explore all options. Well she contacted the manufacturer and set up a case for me to send the boiler back (at my cost) and bear the risk/cost and time to get it fixed. After all said and done, it would have been close cost wise to purchasing a new unit.

I tried to reason with her - saying that it was not fair that I bought something that she implied was close to new, and found damage that I am now responsible for. She said that's the best that she could do, and to stop harassing her (which I was not).

Now it's more of a matter of principle to me.

Do I have a case?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


BL

Senior Member
I am looking for advice as to whether this case would hold up in small claims court.

I recently made a purchase off of craigslist for a steam iron - it's basically a boiler connected to an iron so the you have lots of steam to iron with. The listing person described it as in excellent condition, used only 3 times.

My wife and I went and exchanged the money/product in a parking lot, and I did not inspect it in detail but there was no immediate evidence it was broken. I took it home that night and tested it out - it worked fine.

Three days later, I was going to iron my clothes. I dumped all of the old water out (the previous owners water) and in the process heard a lot of rattling/screws loose and moving inside. I then looked at the where the cap goes on to the boiler and found that the boiler inside was not even secured. It was obviously defective or she sold me a broken iron.

I immediately emailed her and told her the situation, and that I wanted my money back. She said she would get back to me. When she did get back to me via email, she said - essentially no. I called her up explaining the situation over the phone - and she said that she believed me that I didn't do the damage, but she wanted to explore all options. Well she contacted the manufacturer and set up a case for me to send the boiler back (at my cost) and bear the risk/cost and time to get it fixed. After all said and done, it would have been close cost wise to purchasing a new unit.

I tried to reason with her - saying that it was not fair that I bought something that she implied was close to new, and found damage that I am now responsible for. She said that's the best that she could do, and to stop harassing her (which I was not).

Now it's more of a matter of principle to me.

Do I have a case?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Well answer the question .
 

justalayman

Senior Member
do you have anything to prove this was not, as you stated," close to new"?


since the unit worked, you might have a problem proving the seller even knew about the situation let alone intentionally pawned it off onto you.

The only thing you have to hang your hat on is:

The listing person described it as in excellent condition
,but as I stated, unless you can prove she knew that was not correct, you don't have a lot of chance of winning. Even you did not realize the problem when using it. If the seller had used it only 3 times and had not had the situation such as you where you emptied the water and heard the rattling, she ma have been totally unaware of the problem.


with small claims it is always a crapshoot since the judge has so some much latitude to make an "equitable" decision that can often stray outside of the rigid legal requirements of higher courts.

But do remember this: you, as the plaintiff, have the duty of proving your case. The other party only needs to defend what you have adequately proved to the courts. An allegation is not proof of anything.
 

stockm3

Junior Member
aware vs unaware

Regardless of whether it's true or not, I am sure she will say she did not know of the damage.

I'm actually inclined to believe her, but it seems reasonable to me that if she implied what she sold to me was near new, she should take it back regardless of her knowledge of the damage or lack thereof. Under the logic of knowledge/no knowledge it seems the best thing to do when selling things is to be ignorant of the state of the product and only list things like "3 days old", or "used only once" then you would never get into trouble when somebody says "hey the transmission exploded after 3 days of driving".

It will be clear to anyone that shakes it around (like they are dumping water out) that there is substantial damage/manufacturing defects (but there is absolutely no evidence on the outside of unit).

At one point on the phone she said she believed me that I did not do the damage. Then she set up a return # with the manufacturer (warranty was only good for original purchaser) and told me to send it back to them - all the way to Canada, which will probably end up being about $50 to ship.

It's easier to forget about it, but I feel so violated.
 

BL

Senior Member
Did this item come in the original packaging with warranty informations ?

Have you looked up the warranty policy ?

Have you asked the seller if he/she has the sales receipt ,or proof of purchase ?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
near new is irrelevant. Not only is "near new" an ambiguous and subjective term, being new does not mean there are no problems with the product. There are defective brand new products sold all the time.

Actually, I think you are overlooking the one clue that she might have been aware of the problem. Why would a person transport something such as that with water in it? Not only is it heavier, it has the possibility of spilling and damaging your car. To me, the sensible thing would be to empty the water from a product before carrying it to my car.

Since the water would hide the rattling, that might be able to be turned into an argument she had knowledge of the damage and intentionally hid it.
 

stockm3

Junior Member
near new is irrelevant. Not only is "near new" an ambiguous and subjective term, being new does not mean there are no problems with the product. There are defective brand new products sold all the time.

Actually, I think you are overlooking the one clue that she might have been aware of the problem. Why would a person transport something such as that with water in it? Not only is it heavier, it has the possibility of spilling and damaging your car. To me, the sensible thing would be to empty the water from a product before carrying it to my car.

Since the water would hide the rattling, that might be able to be turned into an argument she had knowledge of the damage and intentionally hid it.
Excellent point.
 

stockm3

Junior Member
Did this item come in the original packaging with warranty informations ?

Have you looked up the warranty policy ?

Have you asked the seller if he/she has the sales receipt ,or proof of purchase ?
Her initial reaction was that she was not going to refund my money, contact the manufacturer for a warranty repair. So I looked it up and the warranty says only good to the original purchaser, with proof of receipt, and damage not due to abuse.

After I talked with her about this, and asked her about receipt, where did she buy it, new or refurbished, etc etc, she contacted the manufacturer and set up a return rma# and now I can send it back it seems. I don't know how it's all going to work as she is the original purchaser. I am assuming she had the receipt since she got a return authorization.

That was nice, but now the good deal turns out to be a headache and basically buying something only very slight cheaper than new. Why am I responsible when it was clearly not in like new condition?
 

BL

Senior Member
Her initial reaction was that she was not going to refund my money, contact the manufacturer for a warranty repair. So I looked it up and the warranty says only good to the original purchaser, with proof of receipt, and damage not due to abuse.

After I talked with her about this, and asked her about receipt, where did she buy it, new or refurbished, etc etc, she contacted the manufacturer and set up a return rma# and now I can send it back it seems. I don't know how it's all going to work as she is the original purchaser. I am assuming she had the receipt since she got a return authorization.

That was nice, but now the good deal turns out to be a headache and basically buying something only very slight cheaper than new. Why am I responsible when it was clearly not in like new condition?
With the RMA # would it be returned to her , or you ?
 

stockm3

Junior Member
With the RMA # would it be returned to her , or you ?
Me I'm assuming - she forwarded me an email from manufacturer on how to return iron and it says to include a return address. If all goes well then I'll get a new or refurbished machine, but if they decide it was due to abuse I'm out of luck (i'm assuming all of this).

How about I return the machine to the manufacturer and document everything with pictures etc. If they end up determining it was damaged due to abuse and are not willing to replace/repair, can I recover damages at that point?

Do I even have a case, since it will really end up with her not taking accountability? I'm now thinking not really. I don't really have any proof that she did it. Best I can surmise is that somebody in her house dropped it and she didn't know about it, or she's a crook with no moral fortitude. If she wasn't a crook then she would have believed me because she would have assumed that I had only positive intent, which I did.

So I answered my own question. Just let it go I guess and take the $50 shipping charge gamble, and chalk it up as another good lesson from the book of life.
 

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