Diversion for Pot, intox, trespass

Iowa.

I'm 46, work for the state, no criminal record and am the sole supporter for my family of five.

Apparently, I blacked out after locking myself into a bar bathroom march 11 . I don't remember. Eleven minutes after closing time I was removed and charged with public intox, criminal trespass and possession of marijuana. Records state I refused a PBT, finger prints or to produce a ID. This is the first time I've blacked out and don't understand how I could have even walked or talked. I haven't drank or smoked since the incident and don't plan to ever again.

My preliminary hearing is march 31 and I plan on asking for a Diversion program before entering a guilty plea.

Is this the correct or best way to approach my charges? Or should I ask for a Diversion program before my preliminary hearing?

Should I ask for a public defender before the preliminary hearing? Or borrow money for a attorney now?

Thanks for your time and expertize.

John

Badad said:

Iowa.

I'm 46, work for the state, no criminal record and am the sole supporter for my family of five.

Apparently, I blacked out after locking myself into a bar bathroom march 11 . I don't remember. Eleven minutes after closing time I was removed and charged with public intox, criminal trespass and possession of marijuana. Records state I refused a PBT, finger prints or to produce a ID. This is the first time I've blacked out and don't understand how I could have even walked or talked. I haven't drank or smoked since the incident and don't plan to ever again.

My preliminary hearing is march 31 and I plan on asking for a Diversion program before entering a guilty plea.

Is this the correct or best way to approach my charges? Or should I ask for a Diversion program before my preliminary hearing?

Should I ask for a public defender before the preliminary hearing? Or borrow money for a attorney now?

Thanks for your time and expertize.

John

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if after the bars business hours of operation its not public intox. as its technically closed to the public.

if the owner voluntarlly let you in to serve you drinks its not criminal tresspass unless you refused to leave if requested?

if you carried drugs into this bar, oh well ! (but, technically speaking you did not have actual lawful possession of an illegal substance.)

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failure to produce id is not necessary as you were in custody and one does not need to produce id to be convicted of a crime. (identity mean same as) they dont need something like you if youre in custody?

if its unnecessary its by definition unreasonable.

one can not be required to carry state property (the ID) w/o payment, that involuntary servitude.

(by the way ones finger prints are used to ID individuals.

when YOU were in custody your prints were too, go figure ?

ps. pbt is only require if operating business equipment.

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Dillon said:

if after the bars business hours of operation its not public intox.as its technically closed to the public.

if the owner voluntarlly let you in to serve you drinks its not criminal tresspass unless you refused to leave when requested?
.

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Good points Dillon.. thanks

I didn't refuse to leave. I was passed out.. probably lying on the floor.

Should I try to contact the person running the bar? I assume I'm barred from returning, but I'm not sure.

Regardless. I was in possession of pot.

The time of trying to work things out with the owner has passed. Getting a private attorney is always a good idea. As of right now, because you have no record it is possible a p.d. could work out the same deal.. It's up to you do you want to take that chance? At least look into the prices, I would not expect an attorney to be to expensive for this matter.


Dillon, I cannot even understand what you think you know, but what you post is not realistic. No disrespect here... But come on bro, do you even believe the stuff you say?

Badad said:

Good points Dillon.. thanks

I didn't refuse to leave. I was passed out.. probably lying on the floor.

Should I try to contact the person running the bar? I assume I'm barred from returning, but I'm not sure.

if the bar is open to the public why not return, but leave if asked to go.

Regardless. I was in possession of pot.

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i understand what youre saying but i like to call it illegal possession.

confession trumps evidence, if me i would let the state prove it, its not my burden to say so?

have a nice day.

dave33 said:

The time of trying to work things out with the owner has passed. Getting a private attorney is always a good idea. As of right now, because you have no record it is possible a p.d. could work out the same deal.. It's up to you do you want to take that chance? At least look into the prices, I would not expect an attorney to be to expensive for this matter.


Dillon, I cannot even understand what you think you know, but what you post is not realistic. No disrespect here... But come on bro, do you even believe the stuff you say?

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define expensive?

maybe the op can settle out of court if the owner is willing to drop the charges,

with all due respect, which part of my post are you talking about, please be specific, thank you.

1. I would say maybe $1500 for a misdemeanor court appearance. It changes with every attorney but these issues are not severe.

2. How will he settle out of court now? The police have picked up the charges. Even if they were to become best friends, how would they convince the state to drop charges? A person telling the police they do not want to press charges and the police complying with that request is a thing of the past.

Specifically- It's not public intoxication because the bar is closed. Do you think that would be a successful defense? Even if it was ( highly doubtful ), what about when he left the bar. Wouldn't he be drunk in public then?

Criminal trespass- Do you think a reasonable effective defense would be " judge I did not refuse to leave I was just to drunk". I can see the judge now, "guilty".

The o.p. may have a chance of getting a charge dropped, but in all likelyhood it will be through the plea agreement. Hopefully the diversion. Fighting these charges could very likely result in the loss of a state job and a host of other issues.

dave33 said:

1. I would say maybe $1500 for a misdemeanor court appearance. It changes with every attorney but these issues are not severe.

2. How will he settle out of court now? The police have picked up the charges. Even if they were to become best friends, how would they convince the state to drop charges? A person telling the police they do not want to press charges and the police complying with that request is a thing of the past.

Specifically- It's not public intoxication because the bar is closed. Do you think that would be a successful defense? Even if it was ( highly doubtful ), what about when he left the bar. Wouldn't he be drunk in public then?

Criminal trespass- Do you think a reasonable effective defense would be " judge I did not refuse to leave I was just to drunk". I can see the judge now, "guilty".

The o.p. may have a chance of getting a charge dropped, but in all likelyhood it will be through the plea agreement. Hopefully the diversion. Fighting these charges could very likely result in the loss of a state job and a host of other issues.

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there appears to be a lack of understanding about Jurisdiction in this matter. The fact is that people grant jurisdiction--not courts, not judges, not any public official.

you may not believe this but the state may lacks subject matter jurisdiction in this matter, they are not damaged so there is no corpus delicti, therefore they/it lacks standing in court. ( see legal standing for details), its required in all civil and criminal matters.

how is he legally in the public if the bar bands the public from the bar after hours? isnt that a private property isssue then.

call a taxi for him so there is no issue with the public or let him sleep it off - outside of public view. i mean they kept taking his money for the drinks until he was intoxicated. they could have refused to let him get so intoxicated in the first place. in some states, bar owners can be held liable for damages one may cause if he leave intox and causes harm to others.

if i let the police voluntarlly into my house are they tresspassing? , if i dont tell them to leave? if the police pass out (because they get sick) in my house are they tresspassing. should i call for medical attention so i dont get sued?

Dillon said:

there appears to be a lack of understanding about Jurisdiction in this matter. The fact is that people grant jurisdiction--not courts, not judges, not any public official.

you may not believe this but the state lacks subject matter jurisdiction, they are not damaged so there is no corpus delicti, therefore it lacks standing in court even in this matter. ( see legal standing for details), its required in all civil and criminal matters.

how is he legally in the public if the bar bands the public from the bar after hours? isnt that a private property isssue then.

call a taxi for him so there is no issue with the public or let him sleep it off - outside of public view. i mean they kept taking his money for the drinks until he was intoxicated. they could have refused to let him get so intoxicated in the first place. in some states bar owners can be held liable for damages he may cause.

if i let the police voluntarlly into my house are they tresspassing, if i dont tell them to leave? if the police pass out (because they get sick) in my house are they tresspassing. should i call for medical attention so i dont get sued?

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Wow!! That is one twisted view.
1. Are you actually saying the state has no juristiction within the state? If this is the case I sure wish someone would inform them of this.
2. What private property. Lets make this easy and say he was drunk when the police arrested him outside the bar.

I appreciate the suggestions, but I don't need to loose my job over this. I will then loose everything Iv worked for. BTW I'm a blue collar worker making about 50k and live month to month. $1500 is allot for me.

So back to my questions..

My preliminary hearing is march 31 and I plan on asking for a Diversion program before entering a guilty plea without a lawyer.

Is this the correct or best way to approach my charges? Or should I ask for a Diversion program before my preliminary hearing?

Should I ask for a public defender before the preliminary hearing? Or borrow money for a lawyer now?

Again.Thanks for your time and expertize.

John

Badad said:

I appreciate the suggestions, but I don't need to loose my job over this. I will then loose everything Iv worked for. BTW I'm a blue collar worker making about 50k and live month to month. $1500 is allot for me.

So back to my questions..

My preliminary hearing is march 31 and I plan on asking for a Diversion program before entering a guilty plea without a lawyer.

Is this the correct or best way to approach my charges? Or should I ask for a Diversion program before my preliminary hearing?

Should I ask for a public defender before the preliminary hearing? Or borrow money for a lawyer now?

Again.Thanks for your time and expertize.

John

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Sorry, got a little sidetracked.

1. You will have to wait for the hearing to do anything. Go to the hearing plead not guilty. Tell the judge you need a p.d. But you need to meet certain criteria to be eligible. I do not know the income limits in your state. 50k might be kind of high.

In general I would say you get more attention and generally a better result with a private attorney. goodluck.

Thanks Dave!

dave33 said:

Wow!! That is one twisted view.
1. Are you actually saying the state has no juristiction within the state? If this is the case I sure wish someone would inform them of this.
2. What private property. Lets make this easy and say he was drunk when the police arrested him outside the bar.

Click to expand...

define attorn: means to twist or turn.

late 13c., Anglo-Fr., "to turn over to another," from O.Fr. atorner "to turn, to twist, turn to, assign, attribute, dispose," from a- "to" + tourner "to turn" to twist(see turn). In feudal law, "to transfer homage or allegiance to another lord."

attorneys twist the law - LOL - go figure ?

a court ( a judge and jury) get their jurisdiction when a plaintiff (a flesh and blood real person) pleads he or other people were damaged with first hand knowledge of a matter and thereby creates a controversy for a court to here, Right?

The Case or Controversy Clause of Article III of the United States Constitution (found in Art. III, Section 2, Clause 1) has been deemed to impose a requirement that United States courts are not permitted to hear cases that do not pose an actual controversy.

that is, an actual dispute between adverse parties which is capable of being resolved by the court.

a "case or controversy" exists as the concept of standing which requires a damaged person(s).

dave33 said:

Wow!! That is one twisted view.
1. Are you actually saying the state has no juristiction within the state? If this is the case I sure wish someone would inform them of this.
2. What private property. Lets make this easy and say he was drunk when the police arrested him outside the bar.

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huh, the organic state is the people of Iowa, not the government.

the government only represents the people - think principal and agent


let say, he's outside and only looks drunk. - no pbt taken

dave33 said:

1. You will have to wait for the hearing to do anything. Go to the hearing plead not guilty. Tell the judge you need a p.d. But you need to meet certain criteria to be eligible. I do not know the income limits in your state. 50k might be kind of high.

In general I would say you get more attention and generally a better result with a private attorney. goodluck.

Click to expand...

if me and there was no damaged man/woman involved

I simply tell the magistrate, I do not understand the Nature and Cause of the alleged accusation with regard to the elements of personal and subject matter jurisdiction, venue, underwriting and nature of the action until the prosecution properly alleges and certifies them under oath and on the record.

I am therefore unable to enter a plea to the alleged charges, until I have had an opportunity to raise a meaningful defense against these elements. I cannot rebut an unstated presumption.

I do not want to be represented by an attorney but i may require effective assistance of counsel and I do not waive any Rights.

but thats me.


FYI - one who acts by proxy can act directly.

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the sixth amendment to the constitution

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the (organic) State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the (effective) Assistance of Counsel for his defence.