2nd Ammendment Slam

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? This question pertains to NY state
I retired from a "shall issue" state Michigan that granted the CCW, permit to carry a concealed weapon. I was a prison cop or correctional officer and my life was on the line every day I worked! At least a cop in a car can be protected but I went every day with no weapon. We had to be weapons qualified though for squad duty and transportation runs where we took prisoners from one prison to another. We were armed with a sidearm then. In 17 years of loyal service I acquired some enemies inside and outside the prison because I lived in the town where I worked. When Michigan allowed lawful citizens the right to carry I took that invitation and got my permit. I carried off duty all the time.
When I retired I wanted to leave Michigan for personal reasons and I moved to NY state, Chenango county. When I did that I had all my handguns confiscated by the court of Judge Howie J. Sullivan. I had to apply for a permit to own all 14 of my handguns! It took a year and a half to process my application and when I got it back it was restricted to hunting and target practice only! I could not carry any of my small handguns concealed on my person! In the next county it was no problem. All permits given were un-restricted and therein lies my case. This judge that denied my right to carry a concealed weapon was selective on the basis of my rights. It was just his opinion that I did not need a permit to carry. Everyone that wants to carry should be allowed. It is a grave responsibility and I accepted that. Because this law is manipulated in the county system in NY I believe it is a travesty of the laws that exist for bearing weapons in general! My question and the legal advice I need is this; If I retained an attorney could he get what is legally mine? The right to carry a concealed weapon with no restrictions to protect my life? It says just that on my license to buy a handgun, only when you look on the little page folded behind your license do you see all the restriction that basically handcuffs a person. "Restricted to hunting and target practice only", That is what I want removed from my license to carry a concealed weapon!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

If I retained an attorney could he get what is legally mine? The right to carry a concealed weapon with no restrictions to protect my life?

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can you point to some case law that has ruled a person has an inherent right to carry a concealed weapon? I can't think of any that have ruled as such.

justalayman said:

can you point to some case law that has ruled a person has an inherent right to carry a concealed weapon? I can't think of any that have ruled as such.

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how about the 9th amendmant of the US constitution?

The 9th Amendment's purpose is clear. The Bill of Rights mentions certain rights that are to be protected from government interference, these rights include freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly and the right to keep and bear arms, among others.

Just because a right is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights, though, does not mean that the government automatically has the right to interfere with it. Instead, the 9th Amendment says that any right not enumerated, or listed, in the Constitution is still retained by the people. So, in plain language, it means that there are other rights that people have that are not listed in the Constitution.

The Founding Fathers realized that they could not possibly list every natural right of human beings that needed protection. Instead, they delegated certain powers to the government that were specifically spelled out in the Constitution, and said everything else is left up to individuals and to their state governments.

Dillon said:

how about the 9th amendmant of the US constitution?

The 9th Amendment's purpose is clear. The Bill of Rights mentions certain rights that are to be protected from government interference, these rights include freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly and the right to keep and bear arms, among others.

Just because a right is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights, though, does not mean that the government automatically has the right to interfere with it. Instead, the 9th Amendment says that any right not enumerated, or listed, in the Constitution is still retained by the people. So, in plain language, it means that there are other rights that people have that are not listed in the Constitution.

The Founding Fathers realized that they could not possibly list every natural right of human beings that needed protection. Instead, they delegated certain powers to the government that were specifically spelled out in the Constitution, and said everything else is left up to individuals and to their state governments.

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This has been debated over and over, time and time again.

Time to start reading, Dillon.

Proserpina said:

This has been debated over and over, time and time again.

Time to start reading, Dillon.

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if me, when signing the cc permit - might sign: Dillon, All Rights Reserved.

if me, i would demand a trial by jury and not a trial by judge, U know?


also already debated, the plaintiff/government would lack standing for no corpus delicti, no damaged party, U know?

Let me explain a few things to you all

I grew up in Michigan and while growing up Michigan did not have a shall issue law on the books. I was an adult when the legal battle began to give us the right to carry a concealed weapon. An organization was formed of law abiding citizenry and a few attorneys were retained. We got the right to carry because of the favoritism that was abound in Wayne county where by judges were giving out permits to gangsters and the very rich and denying the right to carry to the poor and working class of Wayne county. This flagrant violation of our rights to carry a gun were slammed by lawsuits and eventually we won the right to carry by legal means. I mention lawyer here and everybody wets their panties! It can be done I tell you but it is a fight. That is what is happening right now in NY. The rich, the well heeled all get permits and some counties do not play that game. That flagrant violation of our rights is being stamped upon in NY state and we need to wake up from our slumber here if we want what is duly our right!

wet my pants? Not hardly. If you are willing to spend your money, by all means, go for it.


But realize, there is a huge difference between arguing it is a right and arguing the people with the power are inappropriately discriminating in their issuing of permits. If you want to argue it is a right, then you are dealing with constitutional issues and there are sometimes groups that would help fight the battle. If you are arguing an improper use of power, that is within NY alone and is much harder to argue.

I suggest you start by contacting the NRA. If there's a local organization, they can direct you to it. Massachusetts has G.O.A.L. (Gun Owner's Action League). I suspect New York does as well.

If you're interested in some reading, there's a local case going on where an attorney is suing the police chief of Worcester, Massachusetts for denying him an unrestricted license to carry concealed (Class A - No Restrictions). Look for Pineiro v. Gemme et al. His argument is that the Worcester Police Chief has a written policy stating he will not issue an unrestricted LTC to anyone but a police officer.

retiredcopper said:

Everyone that wants to carry should be allowed.

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That is not the way New York law, and New York judges who have broad discretion in the matter see things.

Let me guess - you did not have a lawyer when you made your application?

Please - when you move to New York you should have known the law and procedure.

Also, you should have checked your ex-cop entitlement mentality at the Michigan boarder. I can't speak for other states, but it doesn't mean much beyond professional courtesy.

BTW - your guns were confiscated - really? Do you mean you actually illegally imported 14 handguns into New York and were not prosecuted but instead given an opportunity to make a permit application.

You were supposed to leave your handguns with an FFL holder in your state of origin until they could lawfully imported into New York.

Stevef said:

I suggest you start by contacting the NRA.

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The NRA is the largest gun control organization out there. Yes, I said GUN CONTROL ... they routinely support laws that limit our 2nd amendment rights & give people false information to people regarding their gun rights.

I'm pro-2nd amendment & have no use for the NRA.

There are plenty of people that might WANT a permit to carry concealed that should not get. Convicted felons, the mentally ill, people under 18.....

KmanStuck said:

I'm pro-2nd amendment & have no use for the NRA.

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Well, I figured their website may have links to local organizations. Like I said, Massachusetts has G.O.A.L. as well as a newer organization comm2a.org (Commonwealth Second Amendment). I'm not familiar with any similar NY organizations. Since you have no use for the NRA, maybe you can search using google.

I see that the people who are posting have no clue as to NY rules on issuing permits. They only allow concealed permits for law enforcement & politicians.

The OP is not going to be able to carry w/o a court ordering the state to provide him with a concealed carry permit that would allow him to do what he wants.

The question of if carrying is part of the second amendment is a question that the supreme court would answer. Since it says "Keep and BEAR" I would think that you can carry w/o a permit. Many folks around my parts carry w/o getting a permit; police don't hassle them unless they abuse this lax enforcement attitude. In NY, I don't know of any locations similar to my area in regards to lax enforcement of these type of laws.

=Billy_Tompson;2814746]I see that the people who are posting have no clue as to NY rules on issuing permits. They only allow concealed permits for law enforcement & politicians.

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incorrect

The OP is not going to be able to carry w/o a court ordering the state to provide him with a concealed carry permit that would allow him to do what he wants.

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incorrect

The question of if carrying is part of the second amendment is a question that the supreme court would answer. Since it says "Keep and BEAR" I would think that you can carry w/o a permit.

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You would think wrong. It has been ruled many times that the government has a right to regulate those rights and a permit is part of that.

Many folks around my parts carry w/o getting a permit; police don't hassle them unless they abuse this lax enforcement attitude.

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so your friends knowingly and willingly are criminals? Great group of people.

In NY, I don't know of any locations similar to my area in regards to lax enforcement of these type of laws.

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what does that have to do with anything? We are talking about somebody that want to comply with the law that believes the permits are controlled unreasonably. That is something the OP needs to deal with in the courts. Not by becoming some renegade.

justalayman said:

incorrect

incorrect

You would think wrong. It has been ruled many times that the government has a right to regulate those rights and a permit is part of that.

so your friends knowingly and willingly are criminals? Great group of people.

what does that have to do with anything? We are talking about somebody that want to comply with the law that believes the permits are controlled unreasonably. That is something the OP needs to deal with in the courts. Not by becoming some renegade.

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You are clearly not up with the times ....