Possession charges

FreeJimmy · May 31, 2011

I'm from Wisconsin and was charged with possession of THC and possession of drug paraphernalia.

I think I may be a victim of illegal search and seizure or being detained unreasonably long.

Here's my story.

Three of my friends and I were going to play basketball at a school court only one of us had played at before. When we were pulling into the school (which blocked the view of the parking lot and playground) we saw a cop car sitting in the parking lot. We parked in the parking lot and got pulled over by the cop. We waited in my car for about 25 minutes until she finally got out and asked for all of our I.D. I had lost my card but showed her my proof of insurance and gave her some other information, she went back to her car with the information and came back out and said "you two are good" to me and my friend in the passenger side. She took the other two out of the car and searched them to find nothing. While they were outside another cop came in to help her. We had to wait in my car for another half hour before they came back up to my window. I was asked to step out of the car and then was asked to consent to a search of my car, I refused and was asked many times why I wouldn't consent to a search and was told if I had nothing to hide then I should let them search it. I told them no each time and said it was my right as a citizen. I was then told they smelled marijuana on me and I said the smell was from only a cigarette (which it was). She told me they would bring a k-9 dog in, and I told them I wouldn't consent to the dog searching my car. After about 2 hours of waiting in my car unable to leave (for the record I had asked a few times to be able to leave but was being held because we were trespassing) the dogs finally arrived, we were told to get out of my car and an officer told me that the dog will bite and bark if it smells drugs. As the dog sniffed my exterior it didn't bark, bite, or scratch, but merely sniffed the car. The officer then, without my consent, opened my driver's door and let the dog inside to smell. The dog sniffed my center console where the drugs were and the officer told the other police they could search the car. The cops found drug paraphernalia and marijuana in my car.

So, think I should/could challenge the case?

Also what would be the likely punishment received for possession of THC class E and pos. of para. if I plead guilty. I'm 17 and have no record

Cali408nia · May 31, 2011

The smell of marijuana is often enough to establish a probable cause to search to an officer. Even then, it sounds as if the officers never searched the car until the K-9 came in and smelled. I believe that in all states they can bring a K-9 at their choice and if it alerts, they have the right to search. If there had been no smell to the officers or the K-9 didn't alert, they wouldn't have a right to search and most likely would have left you on your way.

What was the reason that the cop decided to pull you over for after you had already parked in a parking lot? If there was nothing done wrong on your part, you might be able to challenge it with a lawyer but I'm sure the officer had a reason or could fabricate some kind of reason why you guys needed attention.

moondoggie · May 31, 2011

FreeJimmy said:
I'm from Wisconsin and was charged with possession of THC and possession of drug paraphernalia.

I think I may be a victim of illegal search and seizure or being detained unreasonably long.

Here's my story.

Three of my friends and I were going to play basketball at a school court only one of us had played at before. When we were pulling into the school (which blocked the view of the parking lot and playground) we saw a cop car sitting in the parking lot. We parked in the parking lot and got pulled over by the cop. We waited in my car for about 25 minutes until she finally got out and asked for all of our I.D. I had lost my card but showed her my proof of insurance and gave her some other information, she went back to her car with the information and came back out and said "you two are good" to me and my friend in the passenger side. She took the other two out of the car and searched them to find nothing. While they were outside another cop came in to help her. We had to wait in my car for another half hour before they came back up to my window. I was asked to step out of the car and then was asked to consent to a search of my car, I refused and was asked many times why I wouldn't consent to a search and was told if I had nothing to hide then I should let them search it. I told them no each time and said it was my right as a citizen. I was then told they smelled marijuana on me and I said the smell was from only a cigarette (which it was). She told me they would bring a k-9 dog in, and I told them I wouldn't consent to the dog searching my car. After about 2 hours of waiting in my car unable to leave (for the record I had asked a few times to be able to leave but was being held because we were trespassing) the dogs finally arrived, we were told to get out of my car and an officer told me that the dog will bite and bark if it smells drugs. As the dog sniffed my exterior it didn't bark, bite, or scratch, but merely sniffed the car. The officer then, without my consent, opened my driver's door and let the dog inside to smell. The dog sniffed my center console where the drugs were and the officer told the other police they could search the car. The cops found drug paraphernalia and marijuana in my car.

So, think I should/could challenge the case?

Also what would be the likely punishment received for possession of THC class E and pos. of para. if I plead guilty. I'm 17 and have no record

I'm no lawyer, but I have had the misfortune of learning the system because my son went through it. It's been my experience that what the people would assume was entrapment, or an illegal search, or a flat out human rights violation isn't considered to be one from the point of view of the police or the court system. That's a damned shame, because , at least theoretically, the people should get to call the shots on what type of system they want. But most people have no clue how few rights they actually have, the broad sweeping powers of the 'law' , and how 'justice' doesn't even factor into the equation. In fact, when I pointed out to a local Judge the lack of Justice in the system, he sent me a letter that explained that no Judge or prosecutor takes an oath to do Justice-they only take an oath to enforce the law. Sooo..the short answer from my perspective, is, once they got you-you have no real rights-just a few technical ones that have little to really do with your situation. And there is no justice, so you probably can't make a case based upon the assumption that such a thing exists. There is a 'flex your rights' video out there on the web somewhere that talks about how to prevent the police from being able to enter your car (if I remember correctly, you would have had to physically lock it, and refuse to unlock it without a search warrant, but I'd have to look again to make sure). As for the results of the charge itself-it depends on not only the laws of your state, but the ideology of your county. My son is doing ten years on a marijuana charge, that would have only been a fine if we had lived 80 miles east of where we live now. Do you have casenet? or some other court tracking system where you are now? if you do, I'd search the police reports of your local paper, and look the names up on the online court dockets. You could get a good idea of what types of sentences they impose for similiar crimes in your area. Good luck!!

moondoggie · May 31, 2011

BTW-if you do find out that the sentencing for certain infractions is less in a different county, you could ask for a change of venue and have your case heard there. I wish I would have realized the power of those three magic words "change of venue" a few years ago.

ERAUPIKE · Jun 1, 2011

I'm no lawyer,

Isn't that an understatement.

but I have had the misfortune of learning the system because my son went through it.

I disagree, you have the misfortune of interacting with the legal system. I can say without a doubt in my mind that you have learned absolutely nothing from the experience.

It's been my experience that what the people would assume was entrapment, or an illegal search, or a flat out human rights violation isn't considered to be one from the point of view of the police or the court system.

This is probably because of the convoluted view people usually have of what their rights actually are. An example that comes to mind is the difference between freedom of speech and absolute freedom of speech.

That's a damned shame, because , at least theoretically, the people should get to call the shots on what type of system they want.

You're right, the system that has been in place since 1776 is flawed because the system doesn't agree with your point of view.

But most people have no clue how few rights they actually have, the broad sweeping powers of the 'law' , and how 'justice' doesn't even factor into the equation.

I would say that most people don't understand what their rights actually are.

In fact, when I pointed out to a local Judge the lack of Justice in the system, he sent me a letter that explained that no Judge or prosecutor takes an oath to do Justice-they only take an oath to enforce the law.

Actually the exact judicial oath is, "I, ________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as ________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God."

I think you may be telling a story.

Sooo..the short answer from my perspective, is, once they got you-you have no real rights-just a few technical ones that have little to really do with your situation.

Your perspective is incorrect, or you take the rights that we have for granted. Your son was given a trial (a right), he was given a just punishment (a right)

And there is no justice, so you probably can't make a case based upon the assumption that such a thing exists.

Define justice. It seems that your definition means whatever you think is best for you.

There is a 'flex your rights' video out there on the web somewhere that talks about how to prevent the police from being able to enter your car (if I remember correctly, you would have had to physically lock it, and refuse to unlock it without a search warrant, but I'd have to look again to make sure).

That is an excellent source of information, internet videos.

As for the results of the charge itself-it depends on not only the laws of your state, but the ideology of your county.

Yes, this may be the only correct statement you made.

My son is doing ten years on a marijuana charge, that would have only been a fine if we had lived 80 miles east of where we live now.

Actually, your son is doing ten years for two possession charges, a distribution charge and a VOP charge. There is a difference, you seem to have trouble grasping that concept.

Do you have casenet? or some other court tracking system where you are now? if you do, I'd search the police reports of your local paper, and look the names up on the online court dockets. You could get a good idea of what types of sentences they impose for similiar crimes in your area. Good luck!!

Without knowing the details of each of those cases and the background of the defendants that will be of little help to you.

FreeJimmy · Jun 1, 2011

What was the reason that the cop decided to pull you over for after you had already parked in a parking lot? If there was nothing done wrong on your part, you might be able to challenge it with a lawyer but I'm sure the officer had a reason or could fabricate some kind of reason why you guys needed attention.

It was technically trespassing, though we didn't know that until she pulled us over and told us, less than a minute within parking. I asked if we could leave in the time after we were told it was trespassing, so it's not like we looked as if we were actually trespassing, considering we parked in a parking lot with a cop in it.

Cali408nia · Jun 1, 2011

FreeJimmy said:
It was technically trespassing, though we didn't know that until she pulled us over and told us, less than a minute within parking. I asked if we could leave in the time after we were told it was trespassing, so it's not like we looked as if we were actually trespassing, considering we parked in a parking lot with a cop in it.

Well I think you've just learned why it's not a good idea to have any kind of marijuana smell in the car. Just the smell alone doesn't mean you are high or have it on you, but it does give probable cause to an officer who wants to search. In some areas where marijuana is decriminalized, the smell alone might not be a big deal to an officer, but in areas where it's more strictly enforced, you're not doing yourself any favors. Whether you think it smelled like a cigarette in your car or not, the officer thought otherwise and was right. If you had immediately gotten out of your car after parking and started bouncing a basketball like you were about to go play, the officer would've told you that you weren't allowed to park there and you could've apologized and moved the car and he/she wouldn't have really had a reason to be sticking their nose in your car. But if you stay in the car and allow the officer to approach it, they are going to use all of their senses to see what's going on in there.

moondoggie · Jun 1, 2011

ERAUPIKE said:
Isn't that an understatement.

I disagree, you have the misfortune of interacting with the legal system. I can say without a doubt in my mind that you have learned absolutely nothing from the experience.

This is probably because of the convoluted view people usually have of what their rights actually are. An example that comes to mind is the difference between freedom of speech and absolute freedom of speech.

You're right, the system that has been in place since 1776 is flawed because the system doesn't agree with your point of view.

I would say that most people don't understand what their rights actually are.

Actually the exact judicial oath is, "I, ________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as ________ under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God."

I think you may be telling a story.

Your perspective is incorrect, or you take the rights that we have for granted. Your son was given a trial (a right), he was given a just punishment (a right)

Define justice. It seems that your definition means whatever you think is best for you.

That is an excellent source of information, internet videos.

Yes, this may be the only correct statement you made.

Actually, your son is doing ten years for two possession charges, a distribution charge and a VOP charge. There is a difference, you seem to have trouble grasping that concept.

Without knowing the details of each of those cases and the background of the defendants that will be of little help to you.

I'm holding in my hand the letter from the judge, and he wrote, "You should understand, there is nothing in the swearing statement taken by the Judge or prosecutor that he will do justice". I read the one you posted. My guess is you found it on the internet somewhere, and it isn't universally used. I also would venture to guess that you've never directly experienced the justice system. People who have, realize that the rights we always assumed we had, aren't there in the way they assumed they were. As for looking up the cases, I have always heard the 'you can't compare cases because..." stuff too. And to some extent you can't. The hardest part going through the system is the uncertainty and the fact that no one will even give you a clue as to what the outcome might be. That's unneccessary. In going through the ordeal with my son (and the distribution case was $200.00 and a connection to two and half pounds-which does not make him a drug lord) I studied the court dockets endlessly. Had I known then, what I know now, we would have switched venues and walked away. But I didn't know that. At this point, if someone in my area gets arrested, if I look up their charge, their background, and which attorney they hired, I can nail within a few months what the outcome of their case will be. Which just adds to my fury. If I can figure that out from the online dockets, the people who work within the system should be able to at least remove some of the trauma that comes from the uncertainity of 'not knowing'. Of course, people can always turn in their friends and get off that way. It happens.

justalayman · Jun 1, 2011

FreeJimmy said:
It was technically trespassing, though we didn't know that until she pulled us over and told us, less than a minute within parking. I asked if we could leave in the time after we were told it was trespassing, so it's not like we looked as if we were actually trespassing, considering we parked in a parking lot with a cop in it.

why was it technically trespassing?

your last statement is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the entire police department was having a picnic. If it was considered private property and you did not have permission to enter, it was trespassing.

so, to determine if it was trespassing, you need a couple things:

was there a sign posted that prohibited entry?

and this is one you will have to investigate: are school grounds considered private property or government owned?

If the property is considered to be owned by a local government entity, unless there was a sign or until you were informed you were trespassing if you did not leave, you were not trespassing.

Even if it is considered private property, if there is no sign, depending on whether people are typically allowed to utilize the ball courts or any part of the land, you still may not have been trespassing.

(1s) In determining whether a person has implied consent to
enter the land of another a trier of fact shall consider all of the circumstances
existing at the time the person entered the land,
including all of the following:
(a) Whether the owner or occupant acquiesced to previous
entries by the person or by other persons under similar circumstances.
(b) The customary use, if any, of the land by other persons.
(c) Whether the owner or occupant represented to the public
that the land may be entered for particular purposes.
(d) The general arrangement or design of any improvements
or structures on the land.

So, the first thing you need to do is determine if you were actually trespassing. If you weren't, then you need to see if "smell" is PC for a search or detention.

ERAUPIKE · Jun 1, 2011

moondoggie said:
I'm holding in my hand the letter from the judge, and he wrote, "You should understand, there is nothing in the swearing statement taken by the Judge or prosecutor that he will do justice". I read the one you posted. My guess is you found it on the internet somewhere, and it isn't universally used.

The Missouri Constitution actually states, " Every person, before being admitted to practice law in this state, shall take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation (substituting, in instances of affirmation, the word "affirm" for the word "swear" in the first line of such text, and further substituting the words "Under the pains and penalties of perjury" in lieu of the words "So help me God" in the last line thereof):
I do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Missouri;
That I will maintain the respect due courts of justice, judicial officers and members of my profession and will at all times conduct myself with dignity becoming of an officer of the court in which I appear;
That I will never seek to mislead the judge or jury by any artifice or false statement of fact or law;
That I will at all times conduct myself in accordance with the Rules of Professional Conduct; and, That I will practice law to the best of my knowledge and ability and with consideration for the defenseless and oppressed.
So help me God."

moondoggie said:
I also would venture to guess that you've never directly experienced the justice system.

You would guess wrong. I would venture to say that you have never directly experienced the justice system. Your grown son has and you attached yourself needlessly into his case.

moondoggie said:
People who have, realize that the rights we always assumed we had, aren't there in the way they assumed they were.

What rights did you assume you had that weren't there when your son was tried and convicted of his crimes.

moondoggie said:
As for looking up the cases, I have always heard the 'you can't compare cases because..." stuff too. And to some extent you can't.

Here we go.

moondoggie said:
The hardest part going through the system is the uncertainty and the fact that no one will even give you a clue as to what the outcome might be.

That is because nobody can accurately foretell the future.

moondoggie said:
That's unneccessary.

No, it is responsible and ethical.

moondoggie said:
In going through the ordeal with my son (and the distribution case was $200.00 and a connection to two and half pounds-which does not make him a drug lord)

Your son went through an ordeal and you tagged along. It does not make him a drug lord but it has made him a convicted felon.

moondoggie said:
I studied the court dockets endlessly. Had I known then, what I know now, we would have switched venues and walked away.

What did his lawyer suggest?

moondoggie said:
But I didn't know that. At this point, if someone in my area gets arrested, if I look up their charge, their background, and which attorney they hired, I can nail within a few months what the outcome of their case will be.

Like you mysterious letter, I guess we will just have to take your word for it.

moondoggie said:
Which just adds to my fury. If I can figure that out from the online dockets, the people who work within the system should be able to at least remove some of the trauma that comes from the uncertainity of 'not knowing'. Of course, people can always turn in their friends and get off that way. It happens.

I'm glad you have had a chance to vent your frustrations with your sons case. Now maybe you can stop hijacking more threads with your pointless rants.

Possession charges

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FreeJimmy

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ERAUPIKE

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