Legality issues over a PS3

minimobster0 · Jun 6, 2011

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

My friend's mother paid for a PS3 on eBay for me and I offered to pay over half of the amount. She refused to take my money and instead said I could work it off for her. This was a legally binding verbal agreement. Unfortunately for her, last year the PS3 in question got the YLOD and had to be serviced. When Sony services a PS3 they do not repair and return, but simply send you a new PS3. Since I sent out the servicing request and the verbal agreement was tied to the PS3 that Sony now has custody of, the current PS3 is in my name alone and therefore should legally belong to me, correct?

The reason I'm asking is because her son and I got into a fight and she kicked me out of her home for good. Normally I would never do this sort of thing, but she told me that the PS3 was staying at her house and then I informed her of this technicality and that infuriated her. Regardless, almost all of my PS3 games including my PS2 system and games still are in her house because she won't let me go over there and get them. I have tried contacting her on numerous occasions and she won't talk to me.

I even sent her a message stating that I would be willing to pay her the amount that was paid for the PS3 as a courtesy. If my thinking is correct, then I shouldn't have to and am doing her a favor by offering that.
Could I please get some help with this issue?

antrc170 · Jun 6, 2011

minimobster0 said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

This was a legally binding verbal agreement.

First, how old are you? You must be the age of majority (18) to enter into a contract.

Second, I doubt that this was a verbal contract that would hold up in court. Even though you can make verbal agreements that are legally binding they must meet certain criteria. There must be an exchange of goods (you'll get the ps3 but have to work for it), the goods must be specific in nature (you'll work for x number of hours), and it cannot be an open ended as in there must be a timeframe with which the conditions must be met (you have one year to do the work). Unless you can show via witnesses, party agreement, emails, texts, etc that all of those conditions were met you don't have a true verbal contract.

Third, IF we stipulate that there is a verbal contract the service item is the ps3. Unless you agreed the agreement was for a particular ps3 then any ps3 would suffice. Sooo....when the orginal item was returned and Sony sent a new one, the new item became the substiute, not a seperate entity regardless of whose name is attached. That means that you have no right to the item until you have met the conditions of the contract.

Antigone* · Jun 6, 2011

minimobster0 said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan

My friend's mother paid for a PS3 on eBay for me and I offered to pay over half of the amount. She refused to take my money and instead said I could work it off for her. This was a legally binding verbal agreement. Unfortunately for her, last year the PS3 in question got the YLOD and had to be serviced. When Sony services a PS3 they do not repair and return, but simply send you a new PS3. Since I sent out the servicing request and the verbal agreement was tied to the PS3 that Sony now has custody of, the current PS3 is in my name alone and therefore should legally belong to me, correct?

The reason I'm asking is because her son and I got into a fight and she kicked me out of her home for good. Normally I would never do this sort of thing, but she told me that the PS3 was staying at her house and then I informed her of this technicality and that infuriated her. Regardless, almost all of my PS3 games including my PS2 system and games still are in her house because she won't let me go over there and get them. I have tried contacting her on numerous occasions and she won't talk to me.

I even sent her a message stating that I would be willing to pay her the amount that was paid for the PS3 as a courtesy. If my thinking is correct, then I shouldn't have to and am doing her a favor by offering that.
Could I please get some help with this issue?

Sue her in small claims court for the depreciated value of your belonging. Have your PS3 go to your new residence.

justalayman · Jun 6, 2011

My friend's mother paid for a PS3 on eBay for me and I offered to pay over half of the amount. She refused to take my money and instead said I could work it off for her. This was a legally binding verbal agreement.

You offered to pay her over half of the purchase price? Why would you not pay her all of the purchase price?

Depending on how you answer that, it can then be determined whether you have any rights to the toy or not.

justalayman · Jun 6, 2011

antrc170 said:
First, how old are you? You must be the age of majority (18) to enter into a contract.

actually that is not true. A minor can enter into a contract and some of them are even enforceable. Generally, being a minor allows the minor to rescind the contract at will (with some exceptions). The other party is bound by the contract just as if neither party was a minor.

In fact, in Michigan, if the minor lied about their age upon entering the contract, they cannot disaffirm the contract.

Minors enter into contracts every day. Any of them that work have entered into a contract. Anytime they purchase anything, even a package of bubble gum, they have entered into a contract. To say they cannot enter into contract is simply erroneous.

antrc170 · Jun 6, 2011

justalayman said:
actually that is not true. A minor can enter into a contract and some of them are even enforceable. Generally, being a minor allows the minor to rescind the contract at will (with some exceptions). The other party is bound by the contract just as if neither party was a minor.

In fact, in Michigan, if the minor lied about their age upon entering the contract, they cannot disaffirm the contract.

Minors enter into contracts every day. Any of them that work have entered into a contract. Anytime they purchase anything, even a package of bubble gum, they have entered into a contract. To say they cannot enter into contract is simply erroneous.

Alright, too broad of a statement

. Minor's cannot enter into most contract types.

minimobster0 · Jun 6, 2011

Okay, I am 18 years of age, but I was not at the time the contract was agreed upon. The item in question is obviously the PS3. The amount of work is not in hours but the amount the PS3 was worth. (It was bought on eBay so it was roughly worth $270-280.) However, there was no timeframe that was agreed upon.

And to the person asking why I offered to pay half, it was because I didn't have the full amount and I asked to use her Paypal account. She allowed me to do so under the condition that I would pay it off by working for her.

However, the purchase was made almost a year ago, and I have worked for her countless times since then. She owns an appraisal company and I would often accompany her on her jobs. Now, on average, she pays/paid me $60 per job. Which would take about 5 jobs to completely pay off the amount. I have gone on more than 5 jobs with her since then.

PattyTN · Jun 6, 2011

Small claims should solve your problem. Ask for monies to replace the console(s) & your games.

I would write a demand letter first and demand a reply within 7 days.

justalayman · Jun 6, 2011

antrc170 said:
Alright, too broad of a statement . Minor's cannot enter into most contract types.

still not correct.

Minors can enter into any contract. They cannot be held to most types of contracts. As I noted, in Michigan, if they lie about their age when entering into a contract, they can be held to just about all contracts.

what the issue is is not whether they can enter into a contract but whether that contract is enforceable against the minor. What Michigan common law states is that a minor does not have the capacity to contract with another (except for certain listed exceptions) and as such, the contract is voidable upon demand of the minor although the other party (as long as they are not a minor as well) has no such right. When they speak of capacity to enter the contract, they are not stating they don't have the ability to enter into a contract but they are under a disability that would allow the contract to be voided just as a contract made under duress or some other incapacity would allow.

The common law exception to this rule is that a minor can bind himself by
contract for “necessaries.” See In re Dzwonkiewicz’s Estate, 231 Mich 165, 167; 203
NW 671 (1925) (defining “necessaries” as items that “‘answer[] the bodily needs of the
infant, without which the individual cannot reasonably exist’” and holding that medical
services are “necessaries&#8221 (citation omitted); Squier v Hydliff, 9 Mich 274, 277 (1861)
(“It has, we believe, always been held that a minor might bind himself by contract for
necessaries, and that such contract when executed, if reasonable under all the
circumstances, or not so unreasonable as to be evidence of fraud or undue advantage, can
not be repudiated by him.” Lynch v Johnson, 109 Mich 640, 643; 67 NW 908 (1896)
(“These clothes were within the class known as ‘necessaries.’” Wood v Losey, 50 Mich
475, 477-478; 15 NW 557 (1883).

There are, of course, also express statutory exceptions to the common law. See,
e.g., MCL 600.1404(2) (educational loans); MCL 600.1403 (willful misrepresentation of
age); MCL 500.2205 (life or disability insurance); MCL 333.5127(1) (consent to medical
care for a minor infected with venereal disease or HIV); MCL 333.6121(1) (consent to
substance abuse related medical care); MCL 333.9132(1) (consent to prenatal and
pregnancy related health care).

Legality issues over a PS3

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minimobster0

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