Using another company's forms??

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia

Quick question. Can you google up another company's legal agreements (sign-up, policy & pro, nda), change the stuff you need to meet your specific requirements, and use it?

if they give you permission, sure. Barring that you risk being sued for copyright infringement.

Gotcha...

How much of it would need to be changed for it to be okay? It's not a competing company or anything.

it is impossible to give a finite amount of alteration that would make it legal. Basically, if it is recognizable as the other writers work, you would be infringing.

justalayman said:

if they give you permission, sure. Barring that you risk being sued for copyright infringement.

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I actually disagree. In the first place most contracts these days are pretty boiler plate and it would be nearly impossible for anyone to prove that their contracts were infringed upon in the design of someone else's contracts.

In the second place contracts are not public documents. They are private documents between the contracting parties. They do not become public unless there is a lawsuit...and once again, it would be quite difficult to prove that the design of one contract infringed upon the rights of another party using a similar contract.

On top of that, it would be foolish to take that kind of stance regarding a contract that became public due to a lawsuit. If the party similar to you lost, the last thing you would want is to draw that kind of connection. If the party similar to you won, the last thing that you would want to do is raise issues regarding the validity of that contract.

Go to an office supply company like G. Neil, or better yet Office Depot (that has free printable forms) and download all you like. Then you don't have to worry about copywrite issues.

LdiJ, while it may seem impossible that something as common as legal forms and documents are copyrighted, they are, in fact, copyrightable.

The legal language often remains the same from form to form and document to document, as in most cases it must, but variations in how the agreements are worded allow for copyright protection. Copyright protects the expression of the facts and ideas (but not the facts and ideas themselves).

Because there has been the rare lawsuit filed in the past over the unauthorized uses of a company's legal forms, it is wise to have your own drafted. The odds of being discovered and then sued over the use of someone else's forms may be slim, but there is still a small chance you can be.

And anyway, doing something illegal just because you can probably get away with it is never the wisest way to operate, nor is it advised.

There ARE free forms available that you can fill in yourself, and you can use the facts and ideas provided in another's form to create your own, but you have to be very careful when you take the words of another and use them for yourself. Fair use of another's copyrighted material is only determined by a court AFTER you have been sued for infringement, so the Copyright Office advises that a person get permission from the copyright holder before using any copyrighted material. One cannot rely on fair use to protect oneself from an infringement suit, nor will a fair use defense always be enough to defeat an infringement claim.

For the best legal protection, you will want any legal document tailored specifically to your own needs, and you will want to ensure it protects both parties from any misunderstandings over the language used. This means a person should have an attorney draft any important legal document to ensure it says all that it needs to say to protect both parties from any dispute in the future.

RGuilany said:

I have done it .. w/o issue ... other companies don't want their contracts discussed in court..like "what does this phrase mean?" then they're stuck with their answer under oath...and they cannot lie about it later

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You've done what? Stolen others IP?

other companies don't have a choice of not discussing their contracts in court if they are sued or sue another based on the contract.

Oh, for the freakin' love of heaven - HERE.

Download Free Business Forms Online from Office Depot

RGuilany, you are saying you have infringed on another's copyrighted work before? Thanks for sharing. Hopefully others will be wiser than you are.

It is not really okay to break the law, even if you have gotten away with it before. Those who think it is okay, probably should not be giving advice on a legal forum.

As an additional note to my earlier post: There are some sites that offer "free" downloads. It is important for anyone who chooses to use these sites to first check to make sure that the site offering these downloads has rights in the works being downloaded. Whether you get it for free or not and whether you believe it to be legal to download or not, if it is an infringed work you are downloading, you can be sued for infringement.

cbg, the site you provided has some business forms and sample agreements. The site itself advises on its legal forms, such as the NDA, that what is provided is informational only. It provides the general information that would be found in such an agreement. The site also advises that any agreement should be specifically tailored to the individual needs of the parties to an agreement and recommends an attorney. Its disclaimer reads as follows: "The information contained on this site is meant as general information only. It should not be used as a substitute for legal, tax or financial advice. As laws vary from state to state, and are constantly changing, only a lawyer, accountant, tax or financial advisor can provide you with specific advice to rely upon. Please seek the advice of an attorney, accountant, and/or tax or financial advisor to assist you in dealing with your specific legal, tax and financial issues."

I understand that, Quincy, but since we'd already addressed the necessity for having the forms worked up on an individual basis, I thought providing a site for sample forms that were EXPECTED to be customized (as opposed to pulling someone else's forms off the Net without that company's knowledge or permission) was the way to go.

Yup. I pretty much understood you understood that.

The site was a good suggestion. PPD3195 just needs to be aware that what he downloads from that site is not in a form he can use as is. But it is certainly better to download free samples from a trustworthy site than it would be to take copyrighted forms off another company's website.

It is possible, by the way, to tailor an agreement or a motion or a complaint or whatever after what you find online that has, perhaps, been used in a court action before. This is done with some frequency to make sure all that needs to be included in your own agreement is included and in the proper form. This can be especially helpful for pro se's. A person has to be careful not to duplicate the wording of a document when duplicating a document's form, however. Facts and ideas can be taken from a copyrighted work and used. Everything else should be considered rights-protected.