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gifts considered child support?

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poohfan1973

Junior Member
Minnesota.

There is no court order in place right now (it's in the process). Father has been giving mother money orders to help support children. Mother is telling father any grociers and/or clothing he buys for children (for her house) is considered gifts, not child support. Is this true? Mother lives with friends and her part in helping pay rent is paying for grociers for the house. Father is considering giving her grocery store gift cards, but she's telling him stuff like that is considered gifts by the courts. I told him he should just keep giving her money orders and then he won't have to worry about it, but she is telling him he should be buying them grociers and food as well as giving cash (money orders). Thanks for any help you can provide:)
 


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Isis1

Senior Member
poohfan1973 said:
Minnesota.

There is no court order in place right now (it's in the process). Father has been giving mother money orders to help support children. Mother is telling father any grociers and/or clothing he buys for children (for her house) is considered gifts, not child support. Is this true? Mother lives with friends and her part in helping pay rent is paying for grociers for the house. Father is considering giving her grocery store gift cards, but she's telling him stuff like that is considered gifts by the courts. I told him he should just keep giving her money orders and then he won't have to worry about it, but she is telling him he should be buying them grociers and food as well as giving cash (money orders). Thanks for any help you can provide:)
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who are you in this mess?

anything given without a court order is considered a gift.

buying groceries do not count. that's a gift.

if dad is trying to make payments on already calculated support, then he would need a record. and no, grocery cards are NOT records. he doesn't get to determine WHERE she spends her child support money.

legally speaking, anything he gives her now, is a gift.
 
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poohfan1973

Junior Member
Hi, I'm sorry, I should have mentioned it's my boyfriend. They were never married and there's not court ordered custody, so he has no custody of them. Even though she won't let him see the kids, I told him he should be helping her support the kids until there's a court date. I thought it would look bad when they go to court if he hasn't been helping support them. Of course, he should be doing it because it's his responsiblilty. If everything he's giving her now is considered a gift, will he have to pay back child support for the time when there wasn't court ordered child support? They both agreed he would give her $100 a week. She wants cash, but he knows that's not a good idea, so he's been giving her money orders. He would like to just write her a check, but she doesn't have a bank account. On behalf of the father and myself, we appreciate any advice you have.
 
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mistoffolees

Senior Member
Isis1 said:
who are you in this mess?

anything given without a court order is considered a gift.

buying groceries do not count. that's a gift.

if dad is trying to make payments on already calculated support, then he would need a record. and no, grocery cards are NOT records. he doesn't get to determine WHERE she spends her child support money.

legally speaking, anything he gives her now, is a gift.
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While that is true, the court can consider it in determining whether or not to allow retroactive child support (if allowed in their state). I've seen some courts say that "since Dad has been paying Mom money previously, we will not make support retroactive".
 
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Isis1

Senior Member
mistoffolees said:
While that is true, the court can consider it in determining whether or not to allow retroactive child support (if allowed in their state). I've seen some courts say that "since Dad has been paying Mom money previously, we will not make support retroactive".
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i haven't found anything in Minnesota to reflect a retroactive support beyond the filing date.....CO, i know for sure. plus two other states.

Personally, OP, i'd tell dad to look up his states calculator and determine the ballpark amount of support. it may be less than $400 or more. he should also be putting money aside since she won't take a check. i'd want to go through the state myself instead of money orders.
 
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TinkerBelleLuvr

Senior Member
I would be banking the money so that when the court orders child support from day of filing, the money is in the bank to pay it.

Cash is a very very bad idea. My X used to pay me support in cash, but then again, I would never have said that he didn't pay.
 
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Alex1176

Member
poohfan1973 said:
Minnesota.

There is no court order in place right now (it's in the process). Father has been giving mother money orders to help support children. Mother is telling father any grociers and/or clothing he buys for children (for her house) is considered gifts, not child support. Is this true? Mother lives with friends and her part in helping pay rent is paying for grociers for the house. Father is considering giving her grocery store gift cards, but she's telling him stuff like that is considered gifts by the courts. I told him he should just keep giving her money orders and then he won't have to worry about it, but she is telling him he should be buying them grociers and food as well as giving cash (money orders). Thanks for any help you can provide:)
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Does she on any sort of state aid like food stamps, cash aid or medicaid?
 
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mistoffolees

Senior Member
Isis1 said:
i haven't found anything in Minnesota to reflect a retroactive support beyond the filing date.....CO, i know for sure. plus two other states.

Personally, OP, i'd tell dad to look up his states calculator and determine the ballpark amount of support. it may be less than $400 or more. he should also be putting money aside since she won't take a check. i'd want to go through the state myself instead of money orders.
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Even so, let's say that Mom files for CS on January 1 and they don't get a hearing or decision until June 1.

Ordinarily, the court could easily award retroactive CS from January to June. But if NCP has been making regular payments (and can prove it), the judge has the discretion to NOT make it retroactive to January and could have it start on June 1. So gifts CAN be considered in determining retroactive support - even if it can't precede the date of filing.

Now, if CP can afford the basics, it is certainly OK for NCP to simply hold on to the money starting on the date that CS was requested and then give it to CP in a lump sum if retroactive support is ordered. But, unfortunately, CP may NEED the money.

But I would absolutely not be paying with cash. If she won't take a check, then she doesn't need the money that badly and can wait until there's a court order. After that, I would file to have the state collect it so she couldn't play games later.
 
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Artemis_ofthe_Hunt

Senior Member
mistoffolees said:
Even so, let's say that Mom files for CS on January 1 and they don't get a hearing or decision until June 1.

Ordinarily, the court could easily award retroactive CS from January to June. But if NCP has been making regular payments (and can prove it), the judge has the discretion to NOT make it retroactive to January and could have it start on June 1. So gifts CAN be considered in determining retroactive support - even if it can't precede the date of filing.

Now, if CP can afford the basics, it is certainly OK for NCP to simply hold on to the money starting on the date that CS was requested and then give it to CP in a lump sum if retroactive support is ordered. But, unfortunately, CP may NEED the money.

But I would absolutely not be paying with cash. If she won't take a check, then she doesn't need the money that badly and can wait until there's a court order. After that, I would file to have the state collect it so she couldn't play games later.
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Best resource for MN: MN Child Support Online // Department of Human Services ;)
 
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CSO286

Senior Member
poohfan1973 said:
Minnesota.

There is no court order in place right now (it's in the process). Father has been giving mother money orders to help support children. Mother is telling father any grociers and/or clothing he buys for children (for her house) is considered gifts, not child support. Is this true?
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Yes this is true. Even if he was giving her money, absent a court order it is a gift, not support. Child support is a court ordered obligation. Anything other than the court ordered obligaiton IS a gift.



poohfan1973 said:
Mother lives with friends and her part in helping pay rent is paying for grociers for the house. Father is considering giving her grocery store gift cards, but she's telling him stuff like that is considered gifts by the courts. I told him he should just keep giving her money orders and then he won't have to worry about it, but she is telling him he should be buying them grociers and food as well as giving cash (money orders). Thanks for any help you can provide:)
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Any money givien is still a gift, but can be and often is, taken in consideration when setting the support obligation or setting it reroactively. Espcially when such contributions are documented. (Cancelled checks, money order receipts, etc.)
 
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