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Case Law and the legality of secession in the 1860's

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Cannae

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts but irrelevant to the discussion

Hi to all, I am looking for case law evidence toward the legality of secession in the 1860's. Specifically, the legality of unilateral secession, the 10th amendment, the definitions of insurrection and secession, Dred Scott case, contracting law, Morrill Tariff, the Cornerstone speech, and the declarations of secession and their legality.

If possible, could you direct me to a website on the above topics? Thank you,

Matt
 


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sandyclaus

Senior Member
Cannae said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts but irrelevant to the discussion

Hi to all, I am looking for case law evidence toward the legality of secession in the 1860's. Specifically, the legality of unilateral secession, the 10th amendment, the definitions of insurrection and secession, Dred Scott case, contracting law, Morrill Tariff, the Cornerstone speech, and the declarations of secession and their legality.

If possible, could you direct me to a website on the above topics? Thank you,

Matt
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Sorry, we don't do homework. But you could always call your local Law Library and see if they have the case law information or know where you could get it. Or there's always Google.
 
Zigner

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Cannae said:
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Massachusetts but irrelevant to the discussion

Hi to all, I am looking for case law evidence toward the legality of secession in the 1860's. Specifically, the legality of unilateral secession, the 10th amendment, the definitions of insurrection and secession, Dred Scott case, contracting law, Morrill Tariff, the Cornerstone speech, and the declarations of secession and their legality.

If possible, could you direct me to a website on the above topics? Thank you,

Matt
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Q: If possible, could you direct me to a website on the above topics?
A: www.google.com
 
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ecmst12

Senior Member
I assume you also have a textbook you can reference, and a professor and/or TA, if you actually want to do your research as opposed to getting other people to do it for you.
 
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tranquility

Senior Member
Ah, a "free" or sovereign citizen.

Why aren't you interested in the 16th amendment? (It wasn't properly ratified you know.)
 
C

Cannae

Junior Member
tranquility said:
Ah, a "free" or sovereign citizen.

Why aren't you interested in the 16th amendment? (It wasn't properly ratified you know.)
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I am now, just that I haven't seen this side argued before. My general opinion, from reading on other forums, is that the states's reason to leave the Union was that the Republican party wasn't thoughtful of the constitution, so that had Lincoln been elected (which he was) states such as SC would secede. His illegal move to restore the Union through a militia caused a wave of even more secessions. Weber argued that to do so was a high crime, and arguably won his debate against Calhoun. Slavery was only used as a means to have a legal breach stand in law.
 
Just Blue

Just Blue

Senior Member
Cannae said:
I am now, just that I haven't seen this side argued before. My general opinion, from reading on other forums, is that the states's reason to leave the Union was that the Republican party wasn't thoughtful of the constitution, so that had Lincoln been elected (which he was) states such as SC would secede. His illegal move to restore the Union through a militia caused a wave of even more secessions. Weber argued that to do so was a high crime, and arguably won his debate against Calhoun. Slavery was only used as a means to have a legal breach stand in law.
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And THANK GOD! That such "means"was used! If not what would have have we now? Would we have all the wonderful and powerful peoples of color to guide us? Enlighten us? Not likely.

It has been a long and difficult journey to get were we are today, and yet we are still not where the GREAT MLK would like. If bloggers want to focus on the 1860's and lament the unjust President Lincoln...(fill in the blank). He was MURDERED by a disgusting coward.
 
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Cannae

Junior Member
Blue Meanie said:
And THANK GOD! That such "means"was used! If not what would have have we now? Would we have all the wonderful and powerful peoples of color to guide us? Enlighten us? Not likely.

It has been a long and difficult journey to get were we are today, and yet we are still not where the GREAT MLK would like. If bloggers want to focus on the 1860's and lament the unjust President Lincoln...(fill in the blank). He was MURDERED by a disgusting coward.
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Three million blacks died in the Civil war, according to Congress census figures in 1866. No the Lincoln presidency was a dark time for black people.
 
LdiJ

LdiJ

Senior Member
Cannae said:
I am now, just that I haven't seen this side argued before. My general opinion, from reading on other forums, is that the states's reason to leave the Union was that the Republican party wasn't thoughtful of the constitution, so that had Lincoln been elected (which he was) states such as SC would secede. His illegal move to restore the Union through a militia caused a wave of even more secessions. Weber argued that to do so was a high crime, and arguably won his debate against Calhoun. Slavery was only used as a means to have a legal breach stand in law.
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So what are you attempting to do? If its that whole "sovereign bit" then you are an idiot. Why? because if you claim to be sovereign then you must provide all of your utilities yourself, all of your "stuff" yourself. How are you providing internet access yourself? If you declare yourself to be sovereign then you must have treaties with other nations to provide you what you cannot provide on your own...do you expect the US to be willing to sign a treaty giving you the right to utlity access? Do you expect any countries to give you access to anything that you cannot provide on your own?
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
Cannae said:
Three million blacks died in the Civil war, according to Congress census figures in 1866. No the Lincoln presidency was a dark time for black people.
Click to expand...

Were those southern free blacks or northern slave blacks. Of course you do realize the the emancipation proclamation did not outlaw all slavery, right? Just those in the states that rebelled. Slavery remained legal in the northern states. There remained approximately 50,000 slaves in Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware.

How do you argue slavery was a breach of the law until after the emancipation proclamation?
 
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ecmst12

Senior Member
I have heard arguments that if an end to slavery could have been achieved without war, the country would never have gone in the segregation direction because the south would not have developed the anger and resentment towards the north and the former slaves that led to it. Free black people actually had more rights before the civil war than they did afterwards. But that's a sociological question, not a legal one.
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
LdiJ said:
So what are you attempting to do? If its that whole "sovereign bit" then you are an idiot. Why? because if you claim to be sovereign then you must provide all of your utilities yourself, all of your "stuff" yourself. How are you providing internet access yourself? If you declare yourself to be sovereign then you must have treaties with other nations to provide you what you cannot provide on your own...do you expect the US to be willing to sign a treaty giving you the right to utlity access? Do you expect any countries to give you access to anything that you cannot provide on your own?
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Ya mean like the Native American/Indian reservations? They have electricity at the casino our local tribe has.
 
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