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Seller hid damaged asbestos tile under new carpet

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Btammer88

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Rhode Island

My fiance and I just bought our first house a few months ago. A newly (and poorly) renovated bungalow in Northern Providence. We've been slowly initiating our own renovations, particularly in the flooring area as there is a lot of new wall-to-wall carpet and we have three messy dogs that make that really impractical. Our stairs in particular have been a catch-all for pet hair and debris, so we decided to pull the carpet up. There was painted hardwood at the top of the stairs, but the first floor landing and the steps leading to our side door and basement are covered in a red speckled tile. We are 99.9% sure that this is asbestos. It's an old house, and our inspector identified a few non-dangerous asbestos products in the basement when we did a walk-through. The problem is that the tile on the landing in front of the basement and side door is in seriously rough shape. It has receded back from the basement door jamb as if rubbed away, revealing gray dusty cardboard like subflooring. The tile in front of the side door is eroded and actively crumbling. What's more, it is obvious that the seller's contractors stapled and nailed carpet directly into the tile going up the rest of the stairs.

Not realizing what it was immediately (we both tend to think of scary pink insulation when we hear asbestos), my fiance had cut up and removed the carpet over the damaged tile. We absolutely cannot afford an asbestos abatement right now, so we covered the damage with some particle board and cheap ceramic tile, but the floor is uneven and it's a very temporary fix. I know that RI does not require the seller to disclose asbestos unless it is an active hazard, but I don't see how he (or the people he hired to renovate) could be unaware of obviously damaged tile if they covered it with brand new carpet and then filled it with staples. This is a high traffic area, and just walking over the carpet made it rub and shift. We're going to have the tile tested, and when it comes back positive, do we have the right to demand he pay for the removal? This guy works with a non-profit renovating old houses, but he was extremely unpleasant to deal with during closing and I doubt he'll go quietly. We'd just like to know if we have a leg to stand on before we engage.
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Rhode Island

My fiance and I just bought our first house a few months ago. A newly (and poorly) renovated bungalow in Northern Providence. We've been slowly initiating our own renovations, particularly in the flooring area as there is a lot of new wall-to-wall carpet and we have three messy dogs that make that really impractical. Our stairs in particular have been a catch-all for pet hair and debris, so we decided to pull the carpet up. There was painted hardwood at the top of the stairs, but the first floor landing and the steps leading to our side door and basement are covered in a red speckled tile. We are 99.9% sure that this is asbestos. It's an old house, and our inspector identified a few non-dangerous asbestos products in the basement when we did a walk-through. The problem is that the tile on the landing in front of the basement and side door is in seriously rough shape. It has receded back from the basement door jamb as if rubbed away, revealing gray dusty cardboard like subflooring. The tile in front of the side door is eroded and actively crumbling. What's more, it is obvious that the seller's contractors stapled and nailed carpet directly into the tile going up the rest of the stairs.

Not realizing what it was immediately (we both tend to think of scary pink insulation when we hear asbestos), my fiance had cut up and removed the carpet over the damaged tile. We absolutely cannot afford an asbestos abatement right now, so we covered the damage with some particle board and cheap ceramic tile, but the floor is uneven and it's a very temporary fix. I know that RI does not require the seller to disclose asbestos unless it is an active hazard, but I don't see how he (or the people he hired to renovate) could be unaware of obviously damaged tile if they covered it with brand new carpet and then filled it with staples. This is a high traffic area, and just walking over the carpet made it rub and shift. We're going to have the tile tested, and when it comes back positive, do we have the right to demand he pay for the removal? This guy works with a non-profit renovating old houses, but he was extremely unpleasant to deal with during closing and I doubt he'll go quietly. We'd just like to know if we have a leg to stand on before we engage.
First, I recommend you have your flooring tested. Although asbestos testing kits are sold at home improvement stores (like Home Depot or Lowes), it is smartest and safest to have an asbestos professional test both the tiles in your house and the air in your house.

Since discovering the dangers to health when asbestos fibers are inhaled, the use of asbestos in most products has been banned. Only a few products now contain asbestos since the ban went into effect in 1989.

Asbestos tiles are not hazardous to the health if the tiles are left in place and not disturbed. It is when the tiles start to crack, chip and flake and the dust is released into the air that the asbestos can be harmful. That is why it is recommended, if a homeowner plans a renovation where asbestos is evidenced, that the homeowner have either a professional asbestos abatement contractor remove the tiles or that the homeowner does not disturb the tiles and instead have them covered with other flooring.

Following are two links that direct you to the Environmental Protection Agency's information on asbestos, the first one on protecting your family and the second one on asbestos laws and regulations.

http://www2.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family

http://www2.epa.gov/asbestos/asbestos-laws-and-regulations

While it can be assumed, perhaps, that the seller of your house was aware that some of the flooring in your house might contain asbestos, especially if the seller is known to work on renovating old homes, there is really no way to tell if the tiles contain asbestos just by looking at them. The seller apparently handled the tiles in the house in the way recommended by the EPA, by covering them with carpeting instead of pulling them up and releasing the dust into the air.
 
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racer72

Senior Member
(we both tend to think of scary pink insulation when we hear asbestos)
Which has never contained asbestos. Asbestos insulation is gray and came in dense heavy blankets. Pink insulation (and most other colors) is spun glass. Which has it's own inherit health risks but nothing like asbestos.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Which has never contained asbestos. Asbestos insulation is gray and came in dense heavy blankets. Pink insulation (and most other colors) is spun glass. Which has it's own inherit health risks but nothing like asbestos.
Specifically it's one particular manufacturer of fiberglass insulation. Only Owens-Corning insulation is pink, they have a trademark on that.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
If it is the step form solid tile that shows no wear after decades of use, any asbestos is solidly encased in the tile and unless you are breaking the step tiles apart instead of disassembling them, you would have more of a worry about lead content possibly being in them. Ours have remained uncovered and well used for over 50 years and show no wear.
 

packman

Junior Member
Asbestos floor tiles tend to be among the lease flareable type of asbestos. Covering it up is considered a reasonable way to deal with it.

It of course would not be my legal advise... But I've removed the floor asbestos with a spray bottle and a chisel before. I just kept them saturated with water so no particles could get in the air.
 

quincy

Senior Member
... But I've removed the floor asbestos with a spray bottle and a chisel before. I just kept them saturated with water so no particles could get in the air.
If you know what you are doing, and are willing to take a risk (however small), saturating asbestos tiles with water can work to eliminate some dust. It is not the recommended way for an individual to handle asbestos tiles, though.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
My sister and I used to think it was a hoot how playing with toilet plunger on them white tiles w black specks stuck to the basement floor w a tarry like substance would pop up so nicely LOL ( mid 1960s ) but anywho encapsulating may be the best bet , so if your going to cover any more of it with ceramic then put down concrete rock board first or if your going to put other types of floor coverings in then Id suggest plywood first. ( this is what I was told re lead paints that are in bad shape if the item is not going to be removed then encapsulate. If the seller was not required to disclose to you if there was any known asbestos in materials in this house then it truly would have been up to you to do more at the inspections level or even adding contingency items to your offer. You are free to contact a atty just to make sure ( try the links above).
 

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