grandparents visitation

I have a 7 year old grandson, who I have not been able to see in quite some time. One, due to me moving an hour away and two, my son (who is an alcoholic) has not seen his son in a year. The girlfriend and mother of grandson has made it impossible for me to see him the entire 7 years. She got a restraining order against my son over a year ago. I have tried to make contact with her and grandson, called and have sent packages. Saw him for 3 hours in January for his birthday. I have recently asked for a day or two with him but no response. In court documents (from a year and a half ago) it states that my son could see his son with supervision, that would be me, and that I was entitled to visitation. Her current boyfreind doesnt want my grandson to associate with his my family. I know he has no say so, but she hasn't been returning my calls, so she is in agreement with him. Being that my son has agreed for me to pursue the matter with his permission, is there anything stopping me from obtaining visitation?
Robin in So. Calif.

My response:

Yes. A parent’s right to limit grandparental visitation is now the law of the land [Troxel v. Granville (U.S. 2000) 120 S.Ct. 2054, 147 L.Ed.2d 49 (court defined liberty interest as "the interest of parents in the care, custody, and control of their children" and observed that this interest is "perhaps the oldest of the fundamental liberty interests recognized by this Court")]

Basically, "Troxel" says that a parent's right to allow, or disallow, anyone from seeing their child is within that parent's purvue, and except in extreme cases, is inviolate.

In the situation as you have described, there's nothing you can do if the mother doesn't want you to see your grandchild.

You have your son to thank for this situation.

IAAL

Even if my son and his girlfriend have joint custody and he states that I can see his son even though he is not pursuing it, I have no rights to obtain visitation?
It has been my understanding, that if one legal parent requests visitation with grandparent than the courts rule in favor. Also, if I live in another county than grandson, which court do I file visitation, mine or childs?
Robin So Calif

rawbinz said:

Even if my son and his girlfriend have joint custody and he states that I can see his son even though he is not pursuing it, I have no rights to obtain visitation?
It has been my understanding, that if one legal parent requests visitation with grandparent than the courts rule in favor. Also, if I live in another county than grandson, which court do I file visitation, mine or childs?
Robin So Calif

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My response:

Let me be clearer about this matter.

First, your son's girlfriend has ABSOLUTELY no rights in this matter. She's not even in the picture. She will NEVER have any rights. Girlfriends and Stepmothers are rarely, if ever (mostly, never) considered in this type of an equation unless, perhaps, both parents are dead, or there is some other EXTREME reason to be considered by the court - - but, for all intents and purposes, his girlfriend is out of the picture.

Unless your son exercises his visitation, the mother does NOT have to allow you to see her son. She doesn't have to release her son to you, or anything else. This is her fundamental right. Since she is the custodial parent, she has the final word on the subject, and there's nothing you, or the courts, can do about it. The U.S. Supreme court has "spoken" and it's now the law of the land, since June of 2000.

For you to file for "visitation" would now be futile, and a waste of money. Troxel vs. Granville is the law.

Alcoholism affects everyone, and everything - - not just the alcoholic. This is the gift your son has given to you.

IAAL

[Edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE on 06-20-2001 at 01:16 PM]

rawbinz said:

In court documents (from a year and a half ago) it states that my son could see his son with supervision, that would be me, and that I was entitled to visitation.

Click to expand...

You would need to quote this for us to understand. The way you are presenting this infomation, it sounds like you have court ordered visitation which is completely seperate from your son. I assume that it actually states that because you are supervising your sons visitation, that you by default get to see your grandchild.

Jan 2000 Son and girlfreind seperate, have at time 6yr son.
Son wants visitation, she keeps child away. Son hires attorney. Feb 2000 they go to court. She manipulates him into dropping proceedings in which he does. I bring up to the court that BOTH have had a very violent relationship and both have been in drugs. court appointed attorney for child is told by both parents that they want to make the relationship work. Documents state that at time of proceeding, son shall have supervised visitation (I as supervisor) and that I, as grandmother am entitled to pursue my rights to visitation. Ex-girlfriend has never liked me and has been very controlling with not only my son, but with her own family. Once hearing is over they start back up relationship. 3 weeks later son is arrested for hitting her, she gets restraining order. Since that time Mar 2000 I have talked with grandson on phone and have seen him just twice. She now has new boyfreind, who never has liked my son, so there is a battle with child's mother and new boyfriend about grandson coming to see me or even talk with me on the phone. Meantime, she has gone back to court and has gained full custody of grandson. My son told her to go ahead and do so. My son has not talked or seen his son since Mar 2000. But that is his decision. I just want to know the steps in which I need to take to go ahead with visitation. Grandson has a full family on his paternal side which have tried to get in contact with granson but to no avail. As for the Troxel-Grammel case. Grandparents were awarded visitation. Just not the amount they first wanted. It was too excessive.
And there were more issues than in this case. My question is do I need an attorney to request visitation or can I do it myself. And What county do I file.
Thanx Robin So. Calif.

rawbinz said:

As for the Troxel-Grammel case. Grandparents were awarded visitation. Just not the amount they first wanted. It was too excessive.

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Wrong. The whole reason for the case was that the mother offered them visitation, the GP's wanted more and the mother refused. In the end, they walked away with nothing.

Sure sounds like you misread "Troxel". In addition, your decision was made prior to this ruling by our highest court. A decision today would not award you visitation.

My response:

Basically, that's what I said when I said:

"For you to file for "visitation" would now be futile, and a waste of money. Troxel vs. Granville is the law."

It appears that our writer's senses are blinded by what she wants, despite Troxel. It's not that we don't sympathize with the writer, or are even disagreeing with her - - it's just that the Supreme Court has already spoken and decided the issue - - so, agree or disagree, that's the law of the land, and we all have to live with it.

IAAL

[Edited by I AM ALWAYS LIABLE on 06-20-2001 at 06:44 PM]