Car mechanic ineptness - Do I have a case?

[xian504]

Virginia

I'm not sure where the following case should go in this forum so I apologize in advance. So here's my story:


Thursday 02/15 I was pulling out of my condo complex when my car go stuck on a patch of ice. I gassed the car for acceleration and immediately noticed that all my oil had fallen out underneath my car. I immediately turned the vehicle off and towed the car to a local mazda dealership. There I was explained that I had cracked my oil pan and that my engine needed flushing. I agreed to have this work done on top of an additional service called "full circle inspection" where the techncians go over various parts of the vehicle to assure good working order. I picked my car up thursday evening after hours (meaning no mechanics on site), and immediately after starting the engine and driving out onto the road I noticed a rattling noise coming from inside my engine. I called the next morning and scheduled an appointment for the upcoming saturday (02/17). I had to cancel that appointment and rescheduled, dropping my vehicle off monday evening after hours. Tuesday morning the techs began to work on my vehicle, called me up at work and explained that they couldn't detect any internal engine noise, or any noise for that matter. I took my lunch break to drive the vehicle with a tech accompanying me on the trip, at which point I demonstrated that the rattle from the engine occurred when I diectly asked the car for acceleration. (Every time I pressed the gas pedal down the noise would occur). The tech in the car acknowledged the noise to which I was referencing and maintained that the noise was "car body related" and not coming from the engine. I drove the car off the dealership lot tuesday with the assistant managers personal assurance that, and I quote, "Your car sir is mechanically sound. The noise is coming from the car body, you're all set to go". The following morning driving to work the noise worsened reaching a climatic poping sound, where I hear literally metal on metal grinding. I immediately pulled the car off the road, and had it towed back to the dealership, at which point I was informed that my engine needed replacing.

I am currently having the car examined by an independent mechanic to determine if the engine replacement was preventable. My concern is that the dealership failed some "duty of care" standard, misdiagnosed my car, allowed me to drive off the lot with an engine on the brink of total failure. After conversing with the head service manager, I was informed that "fully diagnosing an interal engine noise would require a complete dismantling of the engine, which is something the dealership would never recommend due to its' cost ineffectiveness." I believe the dealership failed in its' care of duty to me by failing to notify me of this option, as well as not performing any other tests possibly available to test my engine's functionality. On the invoice I specifically complained of a "rattle coming from engine upon acceleration". I don't believe they looked into this fully enough and hence, now I need a new engine. Had I known my engine was faulty I would not have ordered the full circle inspection or the engine flush to be done for $890. With a busted engine, I'm looking at repair costs of 5k-8k potentially more

So, with a as full of a story as possible,

1) what grounds, if any, do I have to bring a suit to the dealership for any damages incurred? (loss of time from work, damaged engine, repair costs etc.)

2) what would I need to prove to be able to bring a suit with the details above?

Greatly appreciate your time and effort on the matter. Thanks you!What is the name of your state?

 

[Zigner]

The biggest thing you would have to prove is that your engine didn't need replacement when you went *in* to the dealership. If you had a rattling such as that, and you were within a few miles of destroying the engine, then I'm guessing that your engine was already damaged beyond repair.

 

[David Jonathan]

here's where your problem is ...

you had a running engine without oil. from your cracked oil pan that is, and as you stated, you were pretty hard into the gas.

This can (and usually does) cause the bearings to "spin" this is a condition where the bearing actually rotates, and no longer allows oil to pass through to properly lubricate the static, and dynamic parts (non-moving and moving) another thing that can cause this is running without oil will create a LOT of friction, and actually grind the surface down. When talking about bearings, we're talking about tolerances that are usually .003 of an inch to .009 of an inch - going outside those tolerances you will find LOADS of problems.

What you're describing for a noise is a "rod knock" this is when the bearings are out of range for their particular tolerances - this noise can sometimes be confused for wheel bearing, detonation, body rattle, suspension, or other issues. Like they said, without pulling the whole engine apart, and charging you the labor for a rebuild (usually 10 - 12 hours at $100 an hour MN labor rate at most dealerships - tell me year make and model of your car, and I can tell ya the estimated hours this would take) you're pretty much up a creek.

you MAY be able to contact your insurance company, and try to have them pay for the claim under your comprehensive insurance on your policy (if you have full coverage) since this whole thing began with the cracking of your oil pan, and losing your oil while stuck on the Ice ...

--Dave.

 

[Just Blue]

Bretagne activate your pm

sorry op

 

[xian504]

Thanks for your response. Very helpful. '04 Mazda 6 Hatchback

I recognize that i very may well have caused the damage and that my engine would have needed replacing anyway. The fact that angers me is I spent 890 bucks on a car with a broken engine. I wouldn't have made those choices had I known. And if someone over the internet can accurately diagnose my car (assumption, diagnosis still pending) then how in the H*ll could techs at the dealership who have been working on cars for 20 years (as the manager informed me multiple times) were unable too?

The mechanics did an engine flush. Could that have excacerbated the problem at all? Or in doing so, would a reasonable Certified Auto mechanic have been able to identify that issue in any way? is there anything else that they could have done to with reason to have diagnosed/prevented/notified me of the actual state of my engine?

At this point I'm resigned to chalking this up to just biting the bullet, but I can't shake the feeling that I was taken for a ride.

 

[Zigner]

And if someone over the internet can accurately diagnose my car (assumption, diagnosis still pending) then how in the H*ll could techs at the dealership who have been working on cars for 20 years (as the manager informed me multiple times) were unable too?

Because you already went through the process of elimination. If certain things are *not* wrong, then it can only be what's left over...

 

[David Jonathan]

Like Zigner said, the only reason I feel confident with saying it's most likely a rod knock is because the problem got worse over a short amount of time, and they diagnosed it as a major engine failure.

As for running an engine flush, it's real hard to say. Without seeing the engine first hand, I couldn't give you a positive answer either way.

My speciality was with automobiles was noises and drivability, a lot of this was usually found in the transmission, however I've replaced my fair share of engines too.

Now as for the 890 you already spent, how much of that was from just replacing the oil pan?

You're smart with having another shop look at your vehicle, it's good to have another mechanic look at it and get a second opinion. That's what people do when the doctor gives 'em bad news.

I got a call into a friend who has access to Mitchell On Demand (computer program) he's gonna let me know the time on an engine rebuild (including R&R on the engine itself)

I still say look into your insurance policy, and see if this type of damage is covered. You may be able to recover some of that 890 (from the oil pan replacement) too.

I really don't want to say "anyone" is at fault for not recognizing the noise right away ... noises in cars can come from all sorts of places. Especially after cracking an oil pan - there could've been other damage on the underside that could've been suspension or body related that would have lead you to these different noises.

--Dave.