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little_wilson

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ID

I was the manager of a small business that closed in March, with the owner moving it to a new location. He had 3 employees to pay, but not enough to pay all of them. I made sure the 2 under me were paid in full, and since the owner was a friend of mine, I didn't worry about getting my full pay. He assured me I would, both verbally and via text.

By the second week of April, I had received half my final pay. Then he encountered financial difficulties, and had to close up the entire business (he did not file bankruptcy). I knew he owed many people, so I let him slide for far longer than I should've. But I had numerous texts from him where he acknowledged the fact that he owed me money.

I tried to talk to him about it, and he claims to have told me to get the remainder from his former business partner, who left town a few weeks before March. However, we had discussed in March that we both knew it would be useless to do so. The partner had left on VERY poor terms, and would definitely not be involved in paying any of the employees back. The business was essentially my friend's. And I've even got texts where he tells me HE would pay me, not THEY (as in he and his business partner).

Earlier today, I sent him a notarized letter of intent, informing him that I would file a suit in Small Claims Court if I did not receive the remainder of my pay in 30 days. However, my issue is that all of the evidence that I have is via text, since the verbal stuff would be my word versus his word. Is that enough evidence to win a case like this? I don't even have all the texts I need, at least not in a form that would be admissible in court (I got a new phone in the midst of all this, and the old phone had most of the texts, but it didn't have unlimited texts in the inbox, so pretty much all of them are deleted. But I do know every date and time for every text I need). There are a lot of people who are aware of the situation, and who are very much so on my side in it, and agree with me fighting back about it, but they wouldn't have the kind of personal and involved knowledge that would make them witnesses.

So yeah--I know I'd have to subpoena for the texts (I talked to my provider and that's what they told me), but will those be enough?
 


little_wilson

Junior Member
Would I be able to do that if he was paying us under-the-table, starting in mid-October? He had issues with the payroll company he was using before, so he dropped them. As far as I know, the DOL doesn't even know I was employed from Jan to Mar (I had another job for just the Christmas season), and the wages I'm trying to get aren't on any W-2's, since it was all under-the-table. That's why I'm doing Small Claims.
 

eerelations

Senior Member
Would I be able to do that if he was paying us under-the-table, starting in mid-October? He had issues with the payroll company he was using before, so he dropped them. As far as I know, the DOL doesn't even know I was employed from Jan to Mar (I had another job for just the Christmas season), and the wages I'm trying to get aren't on any W-2's, since it was all under-the-table. That's why I'm doing Small Claims.
You know that accepting pay under the table without paying taxes on it is illegal, right? And that as a result, a small claims judge isn't going to be very sympathetic to someone (i.e., you) who's involved in an illegal activity, right?

Also, please explain why your former "boss" didn't just hire a new payroll company to take the place of the old one, given that there are hundreds of them out there.
 

little_wilson

Junior Member
I'm aware of that, but as you point out, it's as long as I don't pay taxes on it. As long as I report it on my taxes (and I know exactly how much I've made and been paid, even if it is under-the-table), there's not really anything legally that can be done to me. It was a less-than-ideal situation, but I wasn't in a financial position to quit and find another job, and I had no control over how we got paid. But I can guarantee that I didn't agree with it. Screwed me over royally in the end, when I realized I couldn't file for unemployment, because as far as the government was concerned, I wasn't employed. And I had a perfect case for it too....Anyway. I know. But I'm doing what I can on that front to protect myself, so a judge isn't going to look poorly on me for that. It'll be the boss who gets the brunt of that, if it comes up.

Also, I don't know why he didn't find a new payroll company. He should've, but I'm thinking he must've psyched himself into thinking the new one would screw up just like the old one did--the business ended up getting taxed over twice what it should've been.
 

little_wilson

Junior Member
From what I understand, under the table pay mostly falls on the employer. If the employee doesn't report the pay on their taxes, then the employee is also in the wrong. But the employer pays absolutely no payroll taxes on the pay, and that's the important issue. Would that doctrine really even work if the person trying to use it was really the instigator of the illegal activity? I guess I don't really see what the big issue is on my side of things. The taxes get taken out. Whether they're taken out at the beginning of the year, or the end of the year, I don't see why it matters.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Because you are a free agent in deciding who you will and won't work for. If you work for a person who is paying you under the table, then you are aiding him in his illegal activities. You may be dodging bill collections, or you may be dodging child support, there are a lot of devious reasons why people want to work for cash under the table. But it always comes down to nobody forced you to work for him. "At will" employment goes both ways. He cannot sue you for quitting, you cannot sue him for firing you in an at will state.

Regardless of how much you "need the money" you have no business working for someone under the table, if for no other reason than fact that you have no means of getting him to pay you if he decides not to. Not to mention he's cheating the state out of unemployment taxes, and you knew he wasn't paying taxes in on you, why on earth would you think you should be able to get unemployment benefits when he terminates you or closes the business? He's cheating all sorts of ways, but YOU are also cheating. Because even though you know just exactly how much you made, yada yada yada, you very likely were not going to report it as income on your taxes for this year. Good luck convincing a judge that you were in small claims court. We can't say how this will go, maybe your friend/boss/partner in crime will cave and pay you with the threat over him. Maybe the judge will see it your way. We can't say.
 

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