Getting refund - sale over phone from out of state company

[sandi111]

I am in Washington state (King County), and was sold a $3495 workshop over the phone by a company in Florida, just over a year ago and I faxed them a check from WA. No contract was signed and no dates were given for the workshop. I was told I could attend a 3-day workshop at a to-be-determined date and/or an 8-week webshop.

Turns out that their dates kept clashing with other workshop series I had already committed to. I almost attended the workshop in October, but I had to cancel 30 days prior because dates were announced for another workshop I had already paid for and once again they clashed. The webshop doesn't work for me as (a) I am a single mom and they are all on school nights, and (b) with the other travelling I do I never seem to be home for 2 months straight when they have had a webshop.

It has gotten to the point where I just want to cancel my enrollment and get a refund. Not only do I not see any time in the forseeable future when I could take this workshop, but I have also just lost interest in taking it at all by now. I called the company who deposited my check (which isn't the company who originally sold me the workshop) and they say they won't give me a refund, "the contract" says I only had 3 days to rescind. But I didn't sign any contract so I don't see why I shouldn't be able to get my money back.

I called Legal Services Plan who are supposed to help me with legal matters, and the lawyer I spoke to said I could claim in King County Small Claims court, in WA. Can anyone confirm that this is correct? The corporation in question does not have a presence in WA. Is a phone transaction considered to have occurred in the location of the seller or the buyer?

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Is a phone transaction considered to have occurred in the location of the seller or the buyer?
A: Probably.

But answer this question, if you get a judgment, how will you collect on it?

 

[WA-Probate.com]

I am in Washington state (King County), and was sold a $3495 workshop over the phone by a company in Florida, just over a year ago and I faxed them a check from WA. No contract was signed and no dates were given for the workshop. I was told I could attend a 3-day workshop at a to-be-determined date and/or an 8-week webshop.

[...]

It has gotten to the point where I just want to cancel my enrollment and get a refund. ... I called the company who deposited my check (which isn't the company who originally sold me the workshop) and they say they won't give me a refund, "the contract" says I only had 3 days to rescind. But I didn't sign any contract so I don't see why I shouldn't be able to get my money back.

I called Legal Services Plan who are supposed to help me with legal matters, and the lawyer I spoke to said I could claim in King County Small Claims court, in WA. Can anyone confirm that this is correct? The corporation in question does not have a presence in WA. Is a phone transaction considered to have occurred in the location of the seller or the buyer?

*****​

Dear sandi111,

I've been involved in two matters like yours, ie, telephone purchase from out-of-state company followed by request for refund that was refused.

1. Company in CA. Filed in King County Small Claims Court. Judge dismissed it without prejudice, saying that WA law provides that small claims jurisdiction does not extend to foreign defendants (ie, out of state), and that if the matter was to be pursued, it would require refiling in District Court. The matter was refiled in District Court, Defendant defaulted, a default judgment was obtained, but Defendant turned out to be judgment proof, despite numerous asset searches, etc. (the company had closed its bank account where the money was sent, etc.). Whoops, $2K down the tubes!

2. Company in DE (CitiBank, as the VISA bank; VISA card was used to pay for the purchase. The seller was in FL & invesigation showed selling company was judgment proof.). Filed in Kitsap County Small Claims Court. CitiBank appeared. Judge ruled in favor of Defendant. Plaintiff appealed to Superior Court for a trial de novo (new trial, from scratch). Matter went to mandatory arbitration. Defendant folded after Plaintiff's case was presented and paid a negotiated settlement. Hooray for our side --- $2K obtained!

Bottom-line: Depends on the Judge you get as to:

A. Will the Judge allow a small claims action against a foreign Defendant (ie, does the small claims court have subject matter jurisdiction over --- legal authority to bind --- any foreign Defendant)? And if so:

B. Will the Judge rule that the telephone transaction was sufficient to establish the "minimum contacts" required between this foreign Defendant and Washington to provide a Washington Court with personal jurisdiction (ie, legal authority to bind this particular Defendant without its consent)?

I regret not being able to give you a more clear cut answer & having to fall back on "it all depends."

Sincerely,

WA-Probate.com

 

[seniorjudge]

I am in Washington state (King County), and was sold a $3495 workshop over the phone by a company in Florida, just over a year ago and I faxed them a check from WA. No contract was signed and no dates were given for the workshop. I was told I could attend a 3-day workshop at a to-be-determined date and/or an 8-week webshop.

You may also want to report this scam to your state's attorney general.