Honda dealer charged for services not performed..

[vyfxdotcom]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

I had been having a very bad driveability problem with my Honda and pinpointed the issue to one thing-- excessive buildup of carbon (gunk) in the air intake (throttle body). On newer vehicles there is a very particular protocol to follow when cleaning this part that can cause expensive issues if not done exactly right... so I took it to Honda to have it done properly.

After being charged $129.95 for the cleaning service I still had issues. Thinking Honda had in fact cleaned out my throttle body, I began troubleshooting elsewhere. Fast forward to this week... I gave up troubleshooting on my own and took my car to a mechanic. Turns out the mechanic found a massive amount of buildup in my throttle body and discovered that Honda never even touched it, yet Honda charged me for it and my receipt mentions it was done. The mechanic at the new shop charged $220 for the diagnosis and cleaning that Honda should have done.

The mechanic this week took pictures of the throttle body, and since sending them to the Honda dealer they have been unresponsive.

I will be filing in small claims court this week for the $129.95 back plus court costs, but would I also be able to sue for the $220 the second shop charged me to diagnose and ACTUALLY clean the throttle body? If Honda had done what they were paid to do in the beginning, I would not have ever gone to a second shop. However because of Honda's negligence, I incurred an additional expense of $220 plus cab fares while my car was in the shop.

Just wondering if it is likely that I could win for the $129.95 + $220 + cab fares + court costs given that I have a receipt from Honda claiming the service was done, and pictures proving it was not.. plus receipts for all other costs incurred.

Thanks

 

[justalayman]

Why do you believe you should be able to have your vehicle worked on for free? Whether Honda has actually done it or if you never took it to them but had the second guy fix it you would owe one of them for the repair. Of you get the money you paid Honda refunded you will have paid only one of them.


You can shoot for the cab fair but unlikely you will get it.

 

[vyfxdotcom]

Why do you believe you should be able to have your vehicle worked on for free? Whether Honda has actually done it or if you never took it to them but had the second guy fix it you would owe one of them for the repair. Of you get the money you paid Honda refunded you will have paid only one of them.


You can shoot for the cab fair but unlikely you will get it.

I don't believe my vehicle can be worked on for free.

My issue is that I paid Honda $129.95 for the service and they literally never did it. Not even for one second, they never started the work yet charged me for it and said it was done.

Because of their negligence and because they claimed the work was done, I had to take my car to a second shop and incur additional fees only to find out Honda never did what they were paid to do.

I would have never had to incur the secondary costs had Honda done their job. Therefore it's my belief they are liable for refunding my $129.95 plus the costs that I would have never had to pay had they not lied....

 

[justalayman]

I don't believe my vehicle can be worked on for free.

My issue is that I paid Honda $129.95 for the service and they literally never did it. Not even for one second, they never started the work yet charged me for it and said it was done.

Because of their negligence and because they claimed the work was done, I had to take my car to a second shop and incur additional fees only to find out Honda never did what they were paid to do.

I would have never had to incur the secondary costs had Honda done their job. Therefore it's my belief they are liable for refunding my $129.95 plus the costs that I would have never had to pay had they not lied....

So you do want the work that was done to be free. What don't you understand that If Honda refunded what you paid them you would be made whole? There was no additional costs beyond what the work you wanted to have done actuslly be done. You pay for it one place (Honda dealer) or the other. If Honda refunded what they charged you and what you paid the other place you would be getting the work done for free.

 

[AdoptADog]

You are asking for the entire costs you expended to be returned.....meaning free to you. I agree Honda should at least refund you for services not performed, and perhaps the difference between their service and the new service. You can shoot for cab fare, but who knows..

But why should Honda pay for the service that was actually performed? Your vehicle needed that service.

ETA..Did you return to Honda to ask for a refund?

 

[justalayman]

You are asking for the entire costs you expended to be returned.....meaning free to you. I agree Honda should at least refund you for services not performed, and perhaps the difference between their service and the new service. You can shoot for cab fare, but who knows..

But why should Honda pay for the service that was actually performed? Your vehicle needed that service.

ETA..Did you return to Honda to ask for a refund?

Honda would have no liability for the difference in cost. It isn't their fault the other place charges more


Imagine this: op never went to Honda but to this other garage. Op would have all costs other than Honda's charge to pay. They would have no claim from Honda for any of it. If Honda refunds what op paid to them, that is where they would be.

Only if Honda caused an additional cost would Honda be liable for anything beyond what they were paid. That would be based on damages due to negligence. They caused no damages therefor they wouldn't owe for anything op paid other than what they paid Honda.

 

[Zigner]

Honda would have no liability for the difference in cost. It isn't their fault the other place charges more

I agree with your conclusion, but not the reasoning behind it.

Honda quoted a price to do a certain repair. Honda failed to properly do the repair, causing the OP to have to go somewhere else to have the same service performed. The OP shouldn't have to pay more than what he was quoted by Honda. If he has to pay more, it's on Honda to pay the difference. I think that the OP should have returned to Honda and given them the opportunity to correct their mistake. Furthermore, the OP had additional services performed at the Mechanic's shop. The OP self-diagnosed his problems and took the car to Honda with a request for a specific service to be performed. They performed (or claim to have performed) that service and charged $129.95. OP then took his car to another mechanic for a diagnosis and also to have the service performed. Honda had no duty to perform a diagnosis because they weren't asked to. Because of this, Honda won't be liable for anything more than the $129.95 and probably wouldn't even be found to be liable for that since he never gave them the opportunity to fix their mistake.

 

[justalayman]

I agree with your conclusion, but not the reasoning behind it.

Honda quoted a price to do a certain repair. Honda failed to properly do the repair, causing the OP to have to go somewhere else to have the same service performed. The OP shouldn't have to pay more than what he was quoted by Honda. If he has to pay more, it's on Honda to pay the difference. I think that the OP should have returned to Honda and given them the opportunity to correct their mistake. Furthermore, the OP had additional services performed at the Mechanic's shop. The OP self-diagnosed his problems and took the car to Honda with a request for a specific service to be performed. They performed (or claim to have performed) that service and charged $129.95. OP then took his car to another mechanic for a diagnosis and also to have the service performed. Honda had no duty to perform a diagnosis because they weren't asked to. Because of this, Honda won't be liable for anything more than the $129.95 and probably wouldn't even be found to be liable for that since he never gave them the opportunity to fix their mistake.

Totally disagree. Unless Honda caused damages there is no reason they would pay what it cost to have the same work done elsewhere. Once they refund what they charged they are out of it. It's no different than of Honda never saw the vehicle. It doesn't matter Honda quoted a cheaper price. Using your argument i could go to one shop and get a cheap price but take it to a more expensive garage to have it fixed and expect the first garage to pay the difference.

Regarding the issue to allow Honda take another shot at it; if it was a warranty issue, yes but this is (effectively) a claim of fraud. No requirement to allow Honda to have a shot at doing the work they were paid to do.

 

[Zigner]

Using your argument i could go to one shop and get a cheap price but take it to a more expensive garage to have it fixed and expect the first garage to pay the difference.

You're misunderstanding my argument. We're not talking about a quote, rather, we're talking about work actually contracted for and performed. If the work performed was substandard and had to be done again by someone else at a higher cost, then the OP is entitled to recover the additional amount he had to pay.

Regarding the issue to allow Honda take another shot at it; if it was a warranty issue, yes but this is (effectively) a claim of fraud. No requirement to allow Honda to have a shot at doing the work they were paid to do.

My contention is that there is absolutely no way the new mechanic can definitively claim that the work wasn't performed. Sure, he can say that it looks like it wasn't performed...that it looks like the build-up couldn't have occurred in such a short period of time, but Honda can simply claim that their guy did a crappy job and they would be happy to re-do the job.

In the end, this is all moot. There's no way that the cleaning service alone ended up costing more at the independent mechanic. The OP thinks that he can get Honda to pay for diagnostic work when they weren't contracted to do so.

 

[vyfxdotcom]

You are asking for the entire costs you expended to be returned.....meaning free to you. I agree Honda should at least refund you for services not performed, and perhaps the difference between their service and the new service. You can shoot for cab fare, but who knows..

But why should Honda pay for the service that was actually performed? Your vehicle needed that service.

ETA..Did you return to Honda to ask for a refund?

Yes I did ask for a refund and was contacted by the district manager. However, all of my replies have gone with no response. I followed up twice but have been ignored.

I would be OK with Honda refunding me the $129.95 + tax I paid to them, along with the difference between their cost and what the second shop charged.

...OP then took his car to another mechanic for a diagnosis and also to have the service performed. Honda had no duty to perform a diagnosis because they weren't asked to. Because of this, Honda won't be liable for anything more than the $129.95 and probably wouldn't even be found to be liable for that since he never gave them the opportunity to fix their mistake.

I don't know why many of you have mentioned I want Honda to pay for some unnecessary diagnosis.. The sole and exclusive reason I had to even go to a second shop is because Honda did not do their job, and thus my car still had problems. Rightfully, under the impression the work had been done at Honda, I had to have a second shop check it out. Turns out Honda never did their work, which the second shop had to uncover, then ultimately fix.

I knew what the problem was initially, which is why I had taken it to Honda and explicitly told them what to do. The second shop would have not had to check anything had Honda done their job. The "diagnosis" was simply the second shop checking my throttle body and discovering it was not cleaned, and inspecting the work Honda had NOT done.

Totally disagree. Unless Honda caused damages there is no reason they would pay what it cost to have the same work done elsewhere. Once they refund what they charged they are out of it. It's no different than of Honda never saw the vehicle. It doesn't matter Honda quoted a cheaper price. Using your argument i could go to one shop and get a cheap price but take it to a more expensive garage to have it fixed and expect the first garage to pay the difference.

Why would they not be liable for the difference? This is what negligence is about. Honda claimed in writing they performed work. Upon dropping my vehicle off, I signed a piece of paper outlining the work to be performed. It explicitly stated "throttle body cleaning". I paid $129.95 + tax for the service. The service was not done. That is a breach of contract by definition. Because I had to pursue other avenues to have the work properly done, they should be liable for the difference as a cost of their negligence.

...My contention is that there is absolutely no way the new mechanic can definitively claim that the work wasn't performed. Sure, he can say that it looks like it wasn't performed...that it looks like the build-up couldn't have occurred in such a short period of time, but Honda can simply claim that their guy did a crappy job and they would be happy to re-do the job.

In the end, this is all moot. There's no way that the cleaning service alone ended up costing more at the independent mechanic. The OP thinks that he can get Honda to pay for diagnostic work when they weren't contracted to do so.

Have to say you're wrong here. Here are the pictures (see below). That is a throttle body and the black carbon buildup is a result of exhaust and oil building up on the throttle plate. Anybody who knows about cars knows it is literally impossible for that amount of carbon buildup to occur in two months. Simply impossible.. It doesn't just "look" like it wasn't done, it was simply never done. Very evident from the pictures. You could show those pictures to any mechanic and they will tell you that is the result of well over 100,000 miles of driving (my car has 180k). If Honda claims they just did a crappy job, that's just as bad as having never done it given these pictures.

Also, the cleaning service did cost more at an independent mechanic. The Honda price of $129.95 was a special for that month that included a throttle body cleaning. On a regular day, the independent mechanic would likely have been less expensive than Honda, but not given the special.

Also, I'm not trying to have Honda reimburse for some diagnostic work. The only reason the independent mechanic even needed to lift the hood was because Honda didn't do a single thing to my car when it was in the shop, and the issue was persisting.

Thanks for all of the replies. Would my most realistic path be to ask for FULL reimbursement (all charges incurred; Honda + independent mechanic + cab fares) or just the Honda fee plus the difference between their charge and the independent shop?

Images:

http://i.imgur.com/RU9xHVI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xRCJkXS.jpg

 

[Indiana Filer]

Would my most realistic path be to ask for FULL reimbursement (all charges incurred; Honda + independent mechanic + cab fares) or just the Honda fee plus the difference between their charge and the independent shop?

Your most realistic path is to ask the first shop to refund you the money you paid. Then, you pay the other shop for the repairs. You don't get to demand the first shop pay for the difference in price. Well, you can demand it, but they have no obligation to do anything other than refund you what you paid.

 

[justalayman]

Yes I did ask for a refund and was contacted by the district manager. However, all of my replies have gone with no response. I followed up twice but have been ignored.

I would be OK with Honda refunding me the $129.95 + tax I paid to them, along with the difference between their cost and what the second shop charged.



I don't know why many of you have mentioned I want Honda to pay for some unnecessary diagnosis.. The sole and exclusive reason I had to even go to a second shop is because Honda did not do their job, and thus my car still had problems. Rightfully, under the impression the work had been done at Honda, I had to have a second shop check it out. Turns out Honda never did their work, which the second shop had to uncover, then ultimately fix.

I knew what the problem was initially, which is why I had taken it to Honda and explicitly told them what to do. The second shop would have not had to check anything had Honda done their job. The "diagnosis" was simply the second shop checking my throttle body and discovering it was not cleaned, and inspecting the work Honda had NOT done.



Why would they not be liable for the difference? This is what negligence is about. Honda claimed in writing they performed work. Upon dropping my vehicle off, I signed a piece of paper outlining the work to be performed. It explicitly stated "throttle body cleaning". I paid $129.95 + tax for the service. The service was not done. That is a breach of contract by definition. Because I had to pursue other avenues to have the work properly done, they should be liable for the difference as a cost of their negligence.



Have to say you're wrong here. Here are the pictures (see below). That is a throttle body and the black carbon buildup is a result of exhaust and oil building up on the throttle plate. Anybody who knows about cars knows it is literally impossible for that amount of carbon buildup to occur in two months. Simply impossible.. It doesn't just "look" like it wasn't done, it was simply never done. Very evident from the pictures. You could show those pictures to any mechanic and they will tell you that is the result of well over 100,000 miles of driving (my car has 180k). If Honda claims they just did a crappy job, that's just as bad as having never done it given these pictures.

Also, the cleaning service did cost more at an independent mechanic. The Honda price of $129.95 was a special for that month that included a throttle body cleaning. On a regular day, the independent mechanic would likely have been less expensive than Honda, but not given the special.

Also, I'm not trying to have Honda reimburse for some diagnostic work. The only reason the independent mechanic even needed to lift the hood was because Honda didn't do a single thing to my car when it was in the shop, and the issue was persisting.

Thanks for all of the replies. Would my most realistic path be to ask for FULL reimbursement (all charges incurred; Honda + independent mechanic + cab fares) or just the Honda fee plus the difference between their charge and the independent shop?

Images:

http://i.imgur.com/RU9xHVI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xRCJkXS.jpg

You aren't claiming negligence. You are claiming fraud. You didn't have the work they did redone. You had work they never did done. That is why Honda is not liable for the difference in what the 2 shops charge.

 

[justalayman]

Yes I did ask for a refund and was contacted by the district manager. However, all of my replies have gone with no response. I followed up twice but have been ignored.

I would be OK with Honda refunding me the $129.95 + tax I paid to them, along with the difference between their cost and what the second shop charged.



I don't know why many of you have mentioned I want Honda to pay for some unnecessary diagnosis.. The sole and exclusive reason I had to even go to a second shop is because Honda did not do their job, and thus my car still had problems. Rightfully, under the impression the work had been done at Honda, I had to have a second shop check it out. Turns out Honda never did their work, which the second shop had to uncover, then ultimately fix.

I knew what the problem was initially, which is why I had taken it to Honda and explicitly told them what to do. The second shop would have not had to check anything had Honda done their job. The "diagnosis" was simply the second shop checking my throttle body and discovering it was not cleaned, and inspecting the work Honda had NOT done.



Why would they not be liable for the difference? This is what negligence is about. Honda claimed in writing they performed work. Upon dropping my vehicle off, I signed a piece of paper outlining the work to be performed. It explicitly stated "throttle body cleaning". I paid $129.95 + tax for the service. The service was not done. That is a breach of contract by definition. Because I had to pursue other avenues to have the work properly done, they should be liable for the difference as a cost of their negligence.



Have to say you're wrong here. Here are the pictures (see below). That is a throttle body and the black carbon buildup is a result of exhaust and oil building up on the throttle plate. Anybody who knows about cars knows it is literally impossible for that amount of carbon buildup to occur in two months. Simply impossible.. It doesn't just "look" like it wasn't done, it was simply never done. Very evident from the pictures. You could show those pictures to any mechanic and they will tell you that is the result of well over 100,000 miles of driving (my car has 180k). If Honda claims they just did a crappy job, that's just as bad as having never done it given these pictures.

Also, the cleaning service did cost more at an independent mechanic. The Honda price of $129.95 was a special for that month that included a throttle body cleaning. On a regular day, the independent mechanic would likely have been less expensive than Honda, but not given the special.

Also, I'm not trying to have Honda reimburse for some diagnostic work. The only reason the independent mechanic even needed to lift the hood was because Honda didn't do a single thing to my car when it was in the shop, and the issue was persisting.

Thanks for all of the replies. Would my most realistic path be to ask for FULL reimbursement (all charges incurred; Honda + independent mechanic + cab fares) or just the Honda fee plus the difference between their charge and the independent shop?

Images:

http://i.imgur.com/RU9xHVI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xRCJkXS.jpg

You aren't claiming negligence. You are claiming fraud. You didn't have the work they did redone. You had work they never did done. That is why Honda is not liable for the difference in what the 2 shops charge.


As to what to sue for;

Every sent you paid Honda and the other garage and anything else you want to toss is. Then, when you get into court, the court will determine what you are due. If you don't ask for something you may be entitled to you won't get it because you didn't ask for it.