How to handle ex wanting gift back

[Miarose]

After a break up, my ex said I could keep his bed. I asked him 3 times, before and during him moving his items out,and every time he said I can keep it. I consider this a gift.
He is now demanding the bed back. Am I required to give it back by PA state law? I gave the engagement ring back(outside of courts) after reading PA law, but I cannot find anything viable about items given just as a gift. He has nothing else in my house, and has moved over a week ago.
Thanks.

 

[TheGeekess]

After a break up, my ex said I could keep his bed. I asked him 3 times, before and during him moving his items out,and every time he said I can keep it. I consider this a gift.
He is now demanding the bed back. Am I required to give it back by PA state law? I gave the engagement ring back(outside of courts) after reading PA law, but I cannot find anything viable about items given just as a gift. He has nothing else in my house, and has moved over a week ago.
Thanks.

Give the dude his bed back and be done with him. Don't feed the drama llama.

 

[latigo]

After a break up, my ex said I could keep his bed. I asked him 3 times, before and during him moving his items out,and every time he said I can keep it. I consider this a gift.
He is now demanding the bed back. Am I required to give it back by PA state law? I gave the engagement ring back(outside of courts) after reading PA law, but I cannot find anything viable about items given just as a gift. He has nothing else in my house, and has moved over a week ago.
Thanks.

Don’t waste time searching for a specific Pennsylvania statute. You won’t find it.

The question of who owns the bed falls under a category of common law that deals with personal property. Personal property being movable property as opposed to non-moveable property.

Title or ownership to a given item of personal property can be transferred several ways, including the owner gifting the item to another.

But in order to pass title or ownership by gift two things must simultaneously occur. (1) The alleged donor/owner’s intent to gift the item (called donative intent) coupled with

(2) A transfer of possession from the donor to the donee. (Which includes constructive possession, pre-existing possession and control by the donee and in certain circumstances where possession is shared, as here.)

Also, the burden of proving these two elements rests solely on the proponent. And in most if not all states must be proved by clear and convincing evidence!

And that level of proof is critical to your situation as it means that if the matter were contested in court the trier of the facts would have to be highly persuaded that a gift was intended.

And since the only evidence you could produce is your rebutted testimony, and considering that there was no concurrence of a physical transfer of the bed into your exclusive possession, I don’t see that you could prevail.

Besides you wouldn’t want to incur the trouble and expense of a lawsuit over a lousy bed any way, even if he wasn't a bed wetter.

 

[Miarose]

Don’t waste time searching for a specific Pennsylvania statute. You won’t find it.

The question of who owns the bed falls under a category of common law that deals with personal property. Personal property being movable property as opposed to non-moveable property.

Title or ownership to a given item of personal property can be transferred several ways, including the owner gifting the item to another.

But in order to pass title or ownership by gift two things must simultaneously occur. (1) The alleged donor/owner’s intent to gift the item (called donative intent) coupled with

(2) A transfer of possession from the donor to the donee. (Which includes constructive possession, pre-existing possession and control by the donee and in certain circumstances where possession is shared, as here.)

Also, the burden of proving these two elements rests solely on the proponent. And in most if not all states must be proved by clear and convincing evidence!

And that level of proof is critical to your situation as it means that if the matter were contested in court the trier of the facts would have to be highly persuaded that a gift was intended.

And since the only evidence you could produce is your rebutted testimony, and considering that there was no concurrence of a physical transfer of the bed into your exclusive possession, I don’t see that you could prevail.

Besides you wouldn’t want to incur the trouble and expense of a lawsuit over a lousy bed any way, even if he wasn't a bed wetter.

Thank you for your input. And i hope he didn't wet the bed! I understand its my word vs. his. All I have is the dates when we discussed the bed, and the obvious date of him renting a Uhual, and taking all of his possessions from my house. The bed is in my possession though, in the house I own, where none of his belongings are any more. So isn't that my exclusive possession? I inferred him saying "you can keep the bed" and my multiple asking on different days of "are you sure I can keep the bed" to be taken as the bed being a gift.

 

[xylene]

The bed is in my possession though, in the house I own, where none of his belongings are any more.

That sounds like pretty clear and convincing evidence the bed was a gift given the totality of facts to be weighed.

Tell him no.

If he sues you, the most he can recover is the fair value of the bed.

That means, at most maybe 100-200 dollars, unless this a really special bed.

The market for used beds is flat and beds depreciate rapidly.

 

[Miarose]

thanks. hopefully that proves to be true, or that he realizes it's not worth the aggravation.

 

[Just Blue]

thanks. hopefully that proves to be true, or that he realizes it's not worth the aggravation.

Is it worth yours??????????

 

[Miarose]

at this moment, for now, yes. at the expense of not having the money to purchase a bed.

 

[latigo]

That sounds like pretty clear and convincing evidence the bed was a gift given the totality of facts to be weighed. . . . .

Other than her word that a gift was intended and his denial what other evidence is there to “weigh”? I’ll tell you. There is absolutely none. Not a scintilla of corroboration to fulfill the burden of clear and convincing evidence of donative intent!
______________________

Just as it was in the case of Baker vs. Baker, U. S. District. Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania NO. 10-CV-1955 (2011) where the trial judge noted:

"To establish an inter vivos gift in Pennsylvania, the party claiming the gift must establish the elements of donative intent and delivery by clear and convincing evidence". Citing: Sivak's Estate, 185 A.2d 778, 780 (Pa. 1962); Thompson v. Curwensville Water Co., 162 A.2d 198. 200-01 (Pa.)

And wherein the defendant’s defense that money received from his parents was a gift and not a loan was rejected by the trial court partly because the defendant failed to offer any corroborating evidence such as “the testimony of an impartial witness and/or any documentary evidence showing that the money was a gift”.

_____________________

So if the ex boyfriend elects to sue the OP for replevin of the bed or its fair value, his prima facie case is quite simple.

“It is my bed. I bought and paid for it. It is in her possession and she refuses to return it. I believe its reasonable value is $_______”

(Noting that an owner of a chattel is qualified to give an opinion as to its worth.)

Then the burden of proof shifts to the OP to prove that it is her bed by reason of gift and to do so by clear and convincing evidence.

And there is nothing here to support the belief that her word will be received as highly more probable and highly more convincing than his word.

If it were all as simple as your response suggests, no one would be secure in their ownership of personal property.

 

[TheGeekess]

at this moment, for now, yes. at the expense of not having the money to purchase a bed.

Buy a blow-up mattress and give the ex his bed back. Or do you like feeding the drama llama?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Tell him you are keeping it for sentimental reasons, to commemorate your acting career.

 

[BL]

Other than her word that a gift was intended and his denial what other evidence is there to “weigh”? I’ll tell you. There is absolutely none. Not a scintilla of corroboration to fulfill the burden of clear and convincing evidence of donative intent!
______________________

Just as it was in the case of Baker vs. Baker, U. S. District. Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania NO. 10-CV-1955 (2011) where the trial judge noted:

"To establish an inter vivos gift in Pennsylvania, the party claiming the gift must establish the elements of donative intent and delivery by clear and convincing evidence". Citing: Sivak's Estate, 185 A.2d 778, 780 (Pa. 1962); Thompson v. Curwensville Water Co., 162 A.2d 198. 200-01 (Pa.)

And wherein the defendant’s defense that money received from his parents was a gift and not a loan was rejected by the trial court partly because the defendant failed to offer any corroborating evidence such as “the testimony of an impartial witness and/or any documentary evidence showing that the money was a gift”.

_____________________

So if the ex boyfriend elects to sue the OP for replevin of the bed or its fair value, his prima facie case is quite simple.

“It is my bed. I bought and paid for it. It is in her possession and she refuses to return it. I believe its reasonable value is $_______”

(Noting that an owner of a chattel is qualified to give an opinion as to its worth.)

Then the burden of proof shifts to the OP to prove that it is her bed by reason of gift and to do so by clear and convincing evidence.

And there is nothing here to support the belief that her word will be received as highly more probable and highly more convincing than his word.

If it were all as simple as your response suggests, no one would be secure in their ownership of personal property.

What stood out here is the fact that a U-Hual was brought to remove belongings,etc.

Even a smaller sized U-Haul can carry a bed.

The bed was left .

In court it could be argued the bed was left and 3 times it was told you can keep the bed.

If no one returned with the U-haul to retrieve the bed ,it's convincing that the bed was not meant to be taken.

I would subpoena the U-haul records for court.

But I also agree to give the bed back and be done with this person .