I got suckered on a used car. Help?

[pudgy45]

What is the name of your state? California

Two-part question:

(Part-1) I purchased a vehicle that I discovered later was a gross polluter. The Department of Consumer Affairs, Bureau of Automotive Repair told me that the seller must, by law, ensure that a vehicle is in compliance with emission control standards prior to sale.

I asked the seller to pay for costs to get the car smogged. He said he sold it to me "as is for parts/junk." While I don't remember seeing a "for parts/junk" clause on the bill of sale, he showed me a photocopy, with what certanily looks like my signature, and the statement was there.

When I bought the car, I was not aware that there was a legal distinction between "as is" and "as is, for parts/junk" until I read the CA vehicile code [24007(b)(2)]. When I bought the car, it was clearly for the purpose of using it for transportation to school, work, and daily use. I didn't even know it was a "gross polluter" until he gave me a stack of paperwork (after he got my money) with previous failed smog test results and other information he had not told me (i.e., it failed two smog checks, and history of the car).

He now says he is not responsible for the car being brought into compliance with emission control law since the "as is for parts/junk" clause is on the bill of sale.

Do I have any recourse (i.e., to sue him for costs of getting the car 'smogged') - or is my ignorance of California auto sales law my own liability?

(Part-2) The seller was a man named "Jim S." He said he had sold the car to a woman, "Lisa R.," who wrote a bad check for the car, then disappeared, leaving Jim the car, some paperwork, and the bad check.

Yet, the bill of sale was signed "Lisa R." If Lisa R. had left/disappeared, then how could she have signed the bill of sale that I signed? He obviously, then, forged her signature. Does this nullify the sale due to the apparently fraudulent signature?

I like the car and want to keep it, but I want him to pay for getting it to pass the emission control standards, including any emission-related repairs.

What are my options in this case, if any?

My sincere thanks, in advance, for any guidance.

Pudgy45

 

[Tercr6]

If it walks like a duck,talks like a duck,it's a duck !! Did he sign this bill of sale in your presents ?
You could probably take him to court and recover the cost for the vehicle ,unless he can prove he had the power of attorney From the person whos' signiture he signed on the receit..Make him provide it in court.( if he don't do the fallowing).
Your best bet is to contact him both by phone and fallow up with a Certified return receit Letter,giving him ,say 10 business days (the normal amount of business time),to either produce a copy of his power of attorney to sign from this other person ( which he says she left leaving the car ),or you will contact the LAW for suspicion of him committing forgery,
Unless he agrees to bring the car into smog complience,or return the cost you pd. Him for the car,while you keep the car.
I witnessed the guy who sold me my present car ,sign the title that was in another persons name.He was here with the return of my money in no time and I kept the car.He said that's like blackmail,I said no it's not.It's a fact what you done & a crime.

 

[JETX]

Sorry, but Tercr is incorrect when he said, " You could probably take him to court and recover the cost for the vehicle ,unless he can prove he had the power of attorney From the person whos' signiture he signed on the receit."
(And his grammar is pretty bad also).

And though I disagree with his reasoning, I believe he may be correct in your legal rights. What exactly is the seller (dealer, individual, salvage pool operator, auction house, etc.)??? The reason this is important is that CA Code places different requirements on them.

A cursory review of the California Vehicle Code doesn't show any provision allowing an individual to sell a vehicle to another without it having a valid certification of compliance.

Further, I doubt that a statement of 'parts/salvage' would stand against the requirements of 'wrecked or dismantled'.

Read the ENTIRE applicable CA Veh Code and send the seller a letter detailing your position that his 'waiver' is not sufficient and demand a refund. If he doesn't agree, I would go ahead and file on him.

The Code can be found at:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=23001-24000&file=24000-24018

 

[Tercr6]

Sorry, but Tercr is incorrect when he said, " You could probably take him to court and recover the cost for the vehicle ,unless he can prove he had the power of attorney From the person whos' signiture he signed on the receit."
(And his grammar is pretty bad also).

LOL Proper grammer does not begin a sentence with (And .
even though Tercr tends to be "eyed" by spell checkers and the like ( I'm sure if their post were scrutinized,they would have mistakes ), that his post is understood . Since this is an Advice forum and not LEGAL COURT DOCUMENTS.I believe as long as my post are understood,other posters should keep their tongues.

Now, Fraudulantly signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT "IS" a FORGERY CRIME. PERIOD !! Would the seller be willing to bet his LUCK ?

 

[JETX]

Okay, looks like we going to have fun with this one......

"LOL Proper grammer does not begin a sentence with (And ."
*** Use of 'and' to start a sentence is perfectly acceptable.

"I believe as long as my post are understood,other posters should keep their toungs ."
*** WRONG. You can make understandable posts all day long and they are still not based any legal facts. And as such, we/I will point out your errors whenever appropriate. Oh, and by the way.... the word is 'tongues'.

"Now, Fraudulantly signing a LEGAL DOCUMENT "IS" a FORGERY CRIME. PERIOD !!"
*** And what are you thinking is a LEGAL document???

"Would the seller be willing to bet his LUCK ?"
*** Do you have any idea what you are talking about??

Pudgy, bottom line.... it is obvious in reading this guys posts that he has absolutely NO idea what he is talking about. As suggested in my post, "Read the ENTIRE applicable CA Veh Code and send the seller a letter detailing your position that his 'waiver' is not sufficient and demand a refund. If he doesn't agree, I would go ahead and file on him."

 

[Tercr6]

Yet, the bill of sale was signed "Lisa R." If Lisa R. had left/disappeared, then how could she have signed the bill of sale that I signed

If a bill of sale isn't a legal binding Documents .I'll eat jetxs' shorts.
If is obvious jetx goes to a university,as he can not even read :how could she have signed the bill of sale i signed ?
Heance Forgery,therefore a Felony CRIME.

Honestly,jetx ,how can you sit there and type critizisms of TerCr ?
I know "someone who knows it all ussually spends all of his time talking"

To the original poster does the Forgery LAWS answer your Question,in legal terms ?

yes there are many factors that one could sell a vehicle under,and each business practice has it's own requirements:
Here for example :
1) if a storage facility sells abondoned vehicle,they have to be certified road worthy,and sold at action.
2) if they are sold by a dealer,the Entire vehicle has to be in good condition and road wothyness,at the time of sale.
3) if the vehicle is considered SALVAGE,before you can put in on the road you have to have it re-certified as such.
If you can prove your intent was for road use,and he knew it,then later found out it was not certified,you could prevail,plus you have the Forgery if proved,that outweighs everything else.

 

[JETX]

"If a bill of sale isn't a legal binding Documents .I'll eat jetxs' shorts."
*** Better bring some salt and pepper. A 'bill of sale' is simply a document recording the facts of the transfer of ownership of property. It is not required in the majority of transactions. Items are bought and sold thousands (millions?) of times each day and a 'bill of sale' is not required. Simply, it is NOT a document required to make a sale 'legal'.

bill of sale
n. a written statement attesting to the transfer (sale) of goods, possessions, or a business to a buyer. It is useful to show that the buyer now has ownership and to detail what was actually purchased. A bill of sale may accompany an agreement which states the agreed-upon terms of sale, including the date of transfer, the price, timing of payment and other provisions.

"If is obvious jetx goes to a university,as he can not even read :how could she have signed the bill of sale i signed ?"
*** As noted before, a 'bill of sale' does not have to be notarized, has no 'independent' legal standing, and can simply be signed out of the presence of the buyer (or seller). The signature is only verification and acceptance of the facts stated in the document.

"Heance Forgery,therefore a Felony CRIME."
*** Again, wrong. There is no forgery.... therefore, NO crime.

"Honestly,jetx ,how can you sit there and tpye critizisms of TerCr ?"
*** Actually, it is extremely easy. Since virtually anything YOU say (do you enjoy talking in the 3rd party??) is very likley full of errors. Oh, and it is 'type', and 'criticisms'. And put a space in FRONT of the comma, not behind. And there is no space in front of the question mark. See how easy this is??

"I know "someone who knows it all ussually spends all of his time talking"
*** Wow, another sentence which makes absolutely no sense at all!!!

"To the original poster does the Forgery LAWS answer your Question,in legal terms ?"
*** Only if it was correct. Damn, this is almost like 'cranking for fish'!!

 

[Tercr6]

I wonder if Jetx has experience ( first hand ) in matters he so insistantly,states i don't know what I'm talking about ? I do ..
I once had an adviser throw my books in the waste basket,to try to see if i could grasp common sence first . I wonder ?

 

[mizlyn]

JETX - I would give up - it's hard to make someone understand common sense when they can't even spell it.

 

[JETX]

"I would give up - it's hard to make someone understand common sense when they can't even spell it"
*** I look at this 'task' as being similar to having to teach an infant to eat on his/her own for the first time. They are going to get more food ON them then in..... but there is such a good feeling when you see the little tyke actually learn something.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

I rather doubt he will, JetX.

I suggested a "spell checker" program to him. He said he downloaded it. Yet, he still can't spell to save his life.

I think Monday morning will be his "expiration of Membership".

IAAL

 

[pudgy45]

RE: Suckered on car

Thank you for your responses, tercr6 and JETX.
I have re-read the California vehicle code section (24007 CVC) and I see what you mean, JETX. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Unfortunately, I sometimes have trouble deciphering "legalese" but I think I understand the code to say, in essence, that he should have made sure it was certified OR that it had to be sold for the legal purpose of wrecking or dismantling, and when applied to my case, it does not seem to meet the explanation of "wrecking/dismantling."

Thank you kindly for your information. I will pursue action against him through small claims court. (I hope I won't be made a fool by having ignorantly signed that bill of sale ... that's my fear.)

pudgy45

 

[Tercr6]

" Insignificant events can take on monumental proportions when your head is full of practically nothing"