Lying on a bill of sale..

[kraze]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I am getting ready to go to court over a recently purchased car. When I bought the car the owner said he would give me a break on the bill of sale and wrote a lower amount. I paid $2000 and he wrote $1200. Now this being my first car I didn't think to much of it. However after reading up on it, it is considered tax fraud and that seems to be a pretty serious crime.

I plan on telling the judge the truth but the other guy seems like he is going to lie and insist we paid $1200.

I am curious...what kind of trouble can I get in to for lying on a bill of sale?

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I am getting ready to go to court over a recently purchased car. When I bought the car the owner said he would give me a break on the bill of sale and wrote a lower amount. I paid $2000 and he wrote $1200. Now this being my first car I didn't think to much of it. However after reading up on it, it is considered tax fraud and that seems to be a pretty serious crime.

I plan on telling the judge the truth but the other guy seems like he is going to lie and insist we paid $1200.

I am curious...what kind of trouble can I get in to for lying on a bill of sale?

Why are you go to court over the car? What is your cause of action? You may find the judge will NOT award you anything due to "unclean hands" even if you can show that you should get something. At best, expect to only get $1200 which the documentation shows you paid. However, you might not be due ANYTHING regarding the car.

Oh you will also have to pay taxes on the ACTUAL amount of the sale.

 

[BL]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I am getting ready to go to court over a recently purchased car. When I bought the car the owner said he would give me a break on the bill of sale and wrote a lower amount. I paid $2000 and he wrote $1200. Now this being my first car I didn't think to much of it. However after reading up on it, it is considered tax fraud and that seems to be a pretty serious crime.

I plan on telling the judge the truth but the other guy seems like he is going to lie and insist we paid $1200.

I am curious...what kind of trouble can I get in to for lying on a bill of sale?

None .

I wouldn't even bring it up if I were you .

The matter will be decided on what is written on the bill of sale, or what your damages might be ruled as.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I suspect the parol evidence rule should prohibit you from offering any evidence (including your testimony) that contradicts the written agreement.

It looks like you bought the car for $1200 and gave the seller an $800 gift.

 

[kraze]

Why are you go to court over the car? What is your cause of action? You may find the judge will NOT award you anything due to "unclean hands" even if you can show that you should get something. At best, expect to only get $1200 which the documentation shows you paid. However, you might not be due ANYTHING regarding the car.

Oh you will also have to pay taxes on the ACTUAL amount of the sale.

I am going to court because in California you cannot sell a car that will not pass smog, the car I have will not pass smog. It was also not my idea to lower the bill of sale it just happened and I said ok, no idea if that makes a difference or not. However I also do have further proof that I did give the guy $2000. ( Two witnesses and original bank receipt)

None .

I wouldn't even bring it up if I were you .

The matter will be decided on what is written on the bill of sale, or what your damages might be ruled as.

Well I do not think it is right to not bring it up, there is no doubt the defendant is going to show the judge the bill of sale, I figured it would be best if I do not lie.

 

[BL]

I am going to court because in California you cannot sell a car that will not pass smog, the car I have will not pass smog. It was also not my idea to lower the bill of sale it just happened and I said ok, no idea if that makes a difference or not. However I also do have further proof that I did give the guy $2000. ( Two witnesses and original bank receipt)



Well I do not think it is right to not bring it up, there is no doubt the defendant is going to show the judge the bill of sale, I figured it would be best if I do not lie.

Your honor , I gave the defendant ( XXX $$$ ) , but the bill of Sale shows ( XXXX $$$ ).

Yes , no doubt the bill of sale will be presented to the court ,and the court will go by that .

Judge , to plaintiff: If it happened, you agreed to it .

 

[Cali408nia]

I am going to court because in California you cannot sell a car that will not pass smog, the car I have will not pass smog.

Let me know how that turns out. The law in CA is that the seller is supposed to smog it within 30 days of selling it. You didn't ask for a smog certificate at the time of purchase and bought the car as-is. The reason why I'm curious is that most private party sales that I've been a part of never had the seller smog the car, and the buyer agreed to buy the car as-is. I'm curious if the courts will enforce your as-is contract or that particular law in CA.

 

[kraze]

Your honor , I gave the defendant ( XXX $$$ ) , but the bill of Sale shows ( XXXX $$$ ).

Yes , no doubt the bill of sale will be presented to the court ,and the court will go by that .

Judge , to plaintiff: If it happened, you agreed to it .

Well I hope it doesn't go that way, however I am not just filing for the car. I am filing for all the repairs I had to do on it, time, insurance..etc.

Let me know how that turns out. The law in CA is that the seller is supposed to smog it within 30 days of selling it. You didn't ask for a smog certificate at the time of purchase and bought the car as-is. The reason why I'm curious is that most private party sales that I've been a part of never had the seller smog the car, and the buyer agreed to buy the car as-is. I'm curious if the courts will enforce your as-is contract or that particular law in CA.

As-is in Ca doesn't mean much if it doesn't/want pass smog. Not if it passed smog and the engine blew up it would be a different story but since it wont pass smog I have some recourse.

 

[justalayman]

kraze;3078456]Well I hope it doesn't go that way, however I am not just filing for the car. I am filing for all the repairs I had to do on it, time, insurance..etc.

You won't get the time or insurance. If you expect a rescission of the sale, it is unlikely you will get the repairs. I suspect you will get either a refund of the $1200 ( not the $2k) or the cost of the repairs required to make it conform to the smog regulations.

 

[BL]

Well I hope it doesn't go that way, however I am not just filing for the car. I am filing for all the repairs I had to do on it, time, insurance..etc.

As-is in Ca doesn't mean much if it doesn't/want pass smog. Not if it passed smog and the engine blew up it would be a different story but since it wont pass smog I have some recourse.

File for the moon .The court will decide the amount if anything.

- Time . Defenantly . No

- Insurance . No.

- Depends on the repairs and what they were for .

- Etc. ??

 

[Cali408nia]

As-is in Ca doesn't mean much if it doesn't/want pass smog. Not if it passed smog and the engine blew up it would be a different story but since it wont pass smog I have some recourse.

IMHO the smog law is there to protect buyers like yourself. However, you were either ignorant of that law at the time you purchased the car or you waived the right to demand a smog certificate and entered into an as-is contract that involved no smog certification. Unless there was a written contract where the seller said "it will pass smog, I guarantee it", then I don't think you should have recourse. But like I said, I'm interested to hear how it turns out. And I don't want you to be on the losing end of a crappy deal, but you did have every right to ask for a smog certificate as the law states or have a mechanic check out the car, which you failed to do. The law doesn't say it's ok to sell a car without a smog certificate and then if it won't pass, the sale can be reversed. The seller has NO IDEA whether it will pass or not until the test is actually done, that's why it requires the seller to smog it beforehand. I also hope you've learned about lying on the bill of sale and DMV paperwork. The no smog and lying about the selling price are two things that are extremely common in private party sales and now you are having to deal with them both in court when it could have been avoided.

 

[kraze]

You won't get the time or insurance. If you expect a rescission of the sale, it is unlikely you will get the repairs. I suspect you will get either a refund of the $1200 ( not the $2k) or the cost of the repairs required to make it conform to the smog regulations.

Makes sense, my ultimate goal would be to keep the car and just have the repairs paid for. I am perfectly ok with that, as long as the $400 I put in it already on repairs is covered as well.

IMHO the smog law is there to protect buyers like yourself. However, you were either ignorant of that law at the time you purchased the car or you waived the right to demand a smog certificate and entered into an as-is contract that involved no smog certification. Unless there was a written contract where the seller said "it will pass smog, I guarantee it", then I don't think you should have recourse. But like I said, I'm interested to hear how it turns out. And I don't want you to be on the losing end of a crappy deal, but you did have every right to ask for a smog certificate as the law states or have a mechanic check out the car, which you failed to do. The law doesn't say it's ok to sell a car without a smog certificate and then if it won't pass, the sale can be reversed. The seller has NO IDEA whether it will pass or not until the test is actually done, that's why it requires the seller to smog it beforehand. I also hope you've learned about lying on the bill of sale and DMV paperwork. The no smog and lying about the selling price are two things that are extremely common in private party sales and now you are having to deal with them both in court when it could have been avoided.

I blame it mostly on ignorance, I am young and still have a lot to learn. That doesn't mean I should get a pass and I should of known the laws going in to this. I should of asked for a smog certificate on purchase but I didn't. In California whenever a vehicle is sold the seller must provide a smog certificate less then 90 days old or if/when it doesn't pass smog the seller is responsible for all repairs to make it pass. I have definitely learned my lesson and from here on out I will be sure to understand what I am getting in to. I am just glad this happened over $2000 and not something like 10-15K

 

[kraze]

Let me know how that turns out. The law in CA is that the seller is supposed to smog it within 30 days of selling it. You didn't ask for a smog certificate at the time of purchase and bought the car as-is. The reason why I'm curious is that most private party sales that I've been a part of never had the seller smog the car, and the buyer agreed to buy the car as-is. I'm curious if the courts will enforce your as-is contract or that particular law in CA.

Even though this post is old I figured I would update you and let you know how things went...

Overall things went well, I didn't get what I was asking for but did win $500 to cover part of repairs to the vehicle. Now I just need to wait 5 months at $100 a month...

I was a little disappointed how things turned out as not only do I need to cover $1000 of repairs, I have a broken car in my driveway for five months, but I guess we can call that a tough lesson learned. For anyone in California that may happen to see this and be in the same boat. Do yourself a favor and don't buy a car with a check engine light on and without a smog certificate that is less then 90 days old.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Glad to see all was not lost. It appears this lesson will not be forgotten soon. Live and learn. Rock On, La Comédie humaine continue.

 

[Antigone*]

Even though this post is old I figured I would update you and let you know how things went...

Overall things went well, I didn't get what I was asking for but did win $500 to cover part of repairs to the vehicle. Now I just need to wait 5 months at $100 a month...

I was a little disappointed how things turned out as not only do I need to cover $1000 of repairs, I have a broken car in my driveway for five months, but I guess we can call that a tough lesson learned. For anyone in California that may happen to see this and be in the same boat. Do yourself a favor and don't buy a car with a check engine light on and without a smog certificate that is less then 90 days old.

I am amazed you even ventured to purchase a vehicle that had not been inspected by your own mechanic. It is worth the $100 you'd pay the guy if you really want the car that bad.

At the end of the day this was not about the approximate $80 bucks you scammed the State of Ca out of; this is about the stupid way you went about the purchase and how karma paid you back.