Mechanic Damaged Car

[ncode]

Southern California

Today I went to get an alignment for my car as well as adjust the camber. I recently bought a brand new coilover kit (high end suspension) for the car and needed it to be done. I took it to the shop and they did the alignment but when they were doing the camber they stripped two bolts on the front passenger side. I nicely asked the shop to fixed what they had damaged and the mechanic said that it was my bolts fault that it broke because it was "probably some cheap chinese screw". My stuff was made in Japan from a trusted company, but that shouldn't matter anyways. What the mechanic did was force the bolt in the thread causing the screw to cross thread and get the bolt stuck and so when he tried to back it out it broke. Right now the bolt is still in there and they actually wanted me to drive off with only 2 of the 4 bolts on it. I tried to work something out with them but they said they would have to charge me for their mistake and would not release my car unless i signed and paid. What I signed just authorized the work to be done, but does not say I approve of their work. I plan to sue for the cost of alignment 150, the piece they stripped 100-200 after i get the estimates back, and probably another 50 to have in installed again. Do I have a good argument? What should I prepare for and what advice do you guys have for me?

Thanks

 

[justalayman]

what kind of car is this? I'm trying to figure out what bolts you are speaking of.

 

[ncode]

rsx

its a 2006 Acura RSX. Its a sports car. The bolts on top are just small allen bolts that you loosen them up to pivot the suspension inwards and outwards to adjust the camber. But the main thing is that the bolts did not break due to stress. It broke because it was forced in and then the guy tried to force it out. If anyone has ever worked with screws or bolts before, if you seat the screw in right it will go in without struggle, but if the threats are not properly seated and you force them in, it will seize up and either strip or break on you which is what happened here. Of the 4 holes 2 are stripped.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Are these all factory parts involved or are there aftermarket parts directly involved?

 

[ncode]

Are these all factory parts involved or are there aftermarket parts directly involved?

these were aftermarket parts. Does the parts actually matter with this case if it was the error of the mechanic who forced the bolt in?

 

[justalayman]

these were aftermarket parts. Does the parts actually matter with this case if it was the error of the mechanic who forced the bolt in?

Possibly. It wouldn't be the first time mismanufactured parts were supplied. Not saying that was the problem but not saying it wasn't either.

are you talking about the bolts with the eccentrics on them for use at the base of the strut?

or was it the link kits for the rear?

 

[ncode]

but clearly you can tell that the bolts were seized in there and that the other holes were forced. Because before bringing it into the shop there was no trouble for them to get the bolts out. It was only after the mechanic got the bolt out put it back in and backed it out again that the bolt seized. There are signs that the threads are stripped too. There was no issue with the other sides as well as the other two bolts that actually did not strip. I had the mechanic who installed it for me say that it was their fault too because there is no way that bolt would have stripped regardless. it is a bolt that goes on the top of the strut where the top hat sits. would it be difficult to argue my case then?

 

[justalayman]

I got it figured out, I think. Buddy Club P-1 camber kits or something similar, right?

Does that use the stock ball joint or does a ball joint come with the control arm? The reason I ask is if it comes with a ball joint, you can be pretty sure the bolts were correct for the thread. If stock ball joint, one has to wonder. Obviously they were designed to fit but like I said, sometimes...


If the mechanic is claiming it was due to cheap parts, was there a torque spec provided for those bolts? If so, did he use a torque wrench?

anyway, if you can convince a judge the mechanic was at fault, I wouldn't see a problem seeking cost to replace the part and whatever it costs to have it replaced at another shop including an alignment. If you try to get reimbursement for cost from the shop that did the work, you will get into trying to split the labor for the total job into pieces. You would not be due a refund of the entire job. That is why it would be easier to claim the costs to fix what they screwed up evidenced by a bill from another shop that fixes it.

 

[ncode]

I got it figured out, I think. Buddy Club P-1 camber kits or something similar, right?

Does that use the stock ball joint or does a ball joint come with the control arm? The reason I ask is if it comes with a ball joint, you can be pretty sure the bolts were correct for the thread. If stock ball joint, one has to wonder. Obviously they were designed to fit but like I said, sometimes...


If the mechanic is claiming it was due to cheap parts, was there a torque spec provided for those bolts? If so, did he use a torque wrench?

anyway, if you can convince a judge the mechanic was at fault, I wouldn't see a problem seeking cost to replace the part and whatever it costs to have it replaced at another shop including an alignment. If you try to get reimbursement for cost from the shop that did the work, you will get into trying to split the labor for the total job into pieces. You would not be due a refund of the entire job. That is why it would be easier to claim the costs to fix what they screwed up evidenced by a bill from another shop that fixes it.

Almost like the buddy club ones except mine are attached to the suspension itself. So basically the bolts that they broke were designed to go with the suspension since they came together in the kit as a set. They did not torque it nor did they use a torque wrench. All that was required was that the bolts be hand tight. The problem is that my mechanic and I know for sure it was their fault because the bolt is still in there. If you have ever worked with anything mechanical, if you thread a screw in and its not properly seated right you're supposed to back it out and try again. The mechanic in this case did not and continued to force it thus causing my bolt to be stuck in there and once that had happened he couldnt get the bolt out and it snapped. Rather than admitting to his mistake he denied it and said it was the bolts fault and would not allow me to see the manager and saying he was the manager. So now I have no choice than to take legal action.

I'm not trying to split the cost of the job done by the shop because it was in no way the installation shop's fault for this. It was the alignment shops fault. Is there any precautions I should take, such as getting a photo of the work done, the stripped bolts etc. The pic of where the holes are stripped will be hard to see because the holes are not that big. Also what is the likely hood of me actually winning this case? Thanks for all your help

Also what do I have to do to actually prove that it was the mechanics fault because I can't take my whole car into the courtroom.

 

[justalayman]

I'm not trying to split the cost of the job done by the shop because it was in no way the installation shop's fault for this. It was the alignment shops fault.

ya lost me. Are you saying one shop installed it and then another shop aligned it? If so, why would the alignment shop have to remove the bolt at all? It appears to be designed to simply loosen the 4 bolts and slide the ball joint as needed and retighten.


what I was talking about not splitting the orginal cost (because you would only be due the labor for that one part) is it is simpler to have another shop repair the work and just make a demand for that.

. It was the alignment shops fault. Is there any precautions I should take, such as getting a photo of the work done, the stripped bolts etc. The pic of where the holes are stripped will be hard to see because the holes are not that big. Also what is the likely hood of me actually winning this case? Thanks for all your help

at least try to take some pics, if for nothing else so the judge kind of understands what you are talking about.


based on what you have stated, I would think you would have a decent shot at winning. What you need to take to court with you is a qualified witness. Somebody with ASE certs down their sleeve or something as official as you can get. Shade tree mechanics don't carry a lot of weight in court. And yes, you need to bring the mechanic with you for it to be worth much.

 

[ncode]

ya lost me. Are you saying one shop installed it and then another shop aligned it? If so, why would the alignment shop have to remove the bolt at all? It appears to be designed to simply loosen the 4 bolts and slide the ball joint as needed and retighten.

Yeah the shop I took it too doesn't have an alignment too and they recommended me to that alignment shop. That was exactly what i was wondering too. There was no need to take it off and that sliding it would have simply done the job, but I really don't know why.

based on what you have stated, I would think you would have a decent shot at winning. What you need to take to court with you is a qualified witness. Somebody with ASE certs down their sleeve or something as official as you can get. Shade tree mechanics don't carry a lot of weight in court. And yes, you need to bring the mechanic with you for it to be worth much.

That is where it kind of gets difficult because my mechanic is ASE certified and all that, but the garage he works at has relationships was that alignment shop. They send their cars there for alignment and get better rates and such. I doubt he would be willing to put his job on the line for my cause and I don't have that close relationships with him where he would spend a day at court with me. Also, for actual witnesses, it was just me and 3 of the workers there. Two looked like high school kids and the one that touched my car seemed like the senior. So I wouldn't have actual witnesses. Would some kind of notarized document work just as well where he stated that it was actually the alignment shops fault?

 

[justalayman]

ncode;3068520]Yeah the shop I took it too doesn't have an alignment too and they recommended me to that alignment shop. That was exactly what i was wondering too. There was no need to take it off and that sliding it would have simply done the job, but I really don't know why.

did you see the guy at the alignment shop remove the bolt? If not, are you sure the installation shop didn't cross thread the bolt and the alignment shop ended up snapping it because it was already screwed up?




.

Would some kind of notarized document work just as well where he stated that it was actually the alignment shops fault?

a judge cannot question a piece of paper nor can the defendant refute the statements and have your witness respond. So, what would be said if the defendant said: when it came in the bolts were already jammed in there and cross threaded. You cannot testify they weren't and the judge will not be able to determine the veracity of your witness so the statement may be discounted. The onus is upon you to prove your case. The defendant doesn't have to prove he didn't do it. You have to prove, beyond a preponderance of the evidence, that he did.

 

[ncode]

did you see the guy at the alignment shop remove the bolt? If not, are you sure the installation shop didn't cross thread the bolt and the alignment shop ended up snapping it because it was already screwed up?

I saw my mechanic install it and in no way did he touch the bolt from the factory. However, I did see the guy take off the bolt and put it back in. Then on top of that when the mechanic actually told me what happened he said that he took it off and adjusted it, put it back on but had to readjust it and that is when it broke. But that is all hear say so I don't think that will matter much in court.

Also can't I argue that if it were to be cross threaded when I brought it in there would be no way for them to have even take off the bolt because it would have just broken the right away? As the stuck broken bolt sits right now its just partially in the hole and that is it.



.a judge cannot question a piece of paper nor can the defendant refute the statements and have your witness respond. So, what would be said if the defendant said: when it came in the bolts were already jammed in there and cross threaded. You cannot testify they weren't and the judge will not be able to determine the veracity of your witness so the statement may be discounted.[/QUOTE]

can i just bring the piece they broke and show it. Because I am pretty sure the mechanic will not be willing like I said to show up in court and risk losing his job. Even if it was cross threaded before I brought it it (it wasn't but hypothetically it was) shouldn't the mechanic recognize that, stop work and ask me what I should do about it? Because that's what my mechanic told me when I was talking about this whole ordeal. He said that if it were to happen to him and it was stuck he would immediately grab the customer over and ask him what to do. Then without my mechanic I'm pretty much hopeless?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Because the bolts were part of an aftermarket kit, the burden will be on you to prove the metal was of a quality that met or exceed the original manufacturers specifications. I see cheap workmanship in aftermarket modification parts all the time. A cheaper grade of metal than factory original can result in stripped threads, after a few times. Two fast examples are chrome rims, which are now coated so lightly they generally rust within a year of purchase and 4 wheel drive lift kits, which do not accommodate proper drive line angles and result in worn out universal joints and blown yoke seals due to side torque. I think you have no case.

 

[ncode]

Because the bolts were part of an aftermarket kit, the burden will be on you to prove the metal was of a quality that met or exceed the original manufacturers specifications. I see cheap workmanship in aftermarket modification parts all the time. A cheaper grade of metal than factory original can result in stripped threads, after a few times. Two fast examples are chrome rims, which are now coated so lightly they generally rust within a year of purchase and 4 wheel drive lift kits, which do not accommodate proper drive line angles and result in worn out universal joints and blown yoke seals due to side torque. I think you have no case.

But it wasn't used with the manufacturer's parts. The piece in question was designed to be used with the aftermarket suspension. It wasn't that the bolt stripped while being bolted onto the oem arms. That particular piece was meant to be used there. On top of that they should have never unscrewed the whole bolt out. They just had to loosen the bolt to adjust it. It doesn't matter how strong a bolt is, if you try to force it in and end up seizing the bolt, there will always be that chance. one hole is completely stripped and useless while another hole has a broken bolt in it. The bolt on that one did not strip, rather the whole head came off.

So then you really think there is no case in that?