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Is it possible to sue an ex client?

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abda53

Junior Member
I am living in WA, ex client is in CA

I apologize if I'm not in the right section for this.

Here is a short backstory. ex client who I will call EC was a ex-coworker of mine. After moving away he hired me to do a website for him $3000 (I was a freelance programmer at the time), the first $1500 was to cover the graphics/design which I had outsourced to a friend of mine who was a graphics designer and the second $1500 was for the programming which I was to do. This was to be paid via PayPal. Once the design was completed and approved EC was to pay the second $1500 to begin programming. I delivered the design and he approved it. I then sent him all of the graphic and source design files since he paid for it. He then paid $300 to begin programming. After a week or so into the development I had family issues come up and was not able to complete the project. I refunded him his $300 for the programming part of it. He then started harassing me via email and phone calls to get a refund on the $1500 for the design work which he already accepted. He sent numerous emails with physical threats including death threats, even calling my landlord. I told him that his design work was delivered and accepted but the harassment continued. He eventually filed at PayPal saying that he wanted his $1500 back (with numerous lies about what happened) and he eventually won. PayPal then took out $1500 out of my account which at the time had just about $0 in it, effectively closing my account from negative funds. PayPal collections is now trying to contact me to pay the bill.

I do not believe I was in the wrong and because EC had lied about what happened he not only got his money back for the design work (which he accepted and approved of) but had also kept the designs.

So my questions are:
- What should I do to try to pursue this and get him to pay for the bill?
- Is it possible at all to take him to court without physically being present in CA?
- Is it possible (or recommended/needed) to hire an attorney?
- Is this case even something that I could win and have him pay for the collections?

Thank you for your
 


justalayman

Senior Member
After moving away he hired me to do a website for him $3000
was the contract for $3000 for the entire site or $1500 for the design and $1500 for the programming?

If the former, you breached the contract, the entire contract for $3000, by not completing the work. You may be able to obtain the design work or, hopefully, the value of that work should you go to court. If you don't, he is unjustly enriched. If the latter, there should be little problem obtaining a judgment for the costs of the design work.



Is it possible at all to take him to court without physically being present in CA?
no


- Is it possible (or recommended/needed) to hire an attorney?
needed is something you would have to determine. A lawyer is not allowed to represent you in small claims court so they would act in an advisory capacity only.


- Is this case even something that I could win and have him pay for the collections?
You may be able to win. Not enough info here to make that determination though. As to making him pay for the collections; not understanding what you mean. Generally you would be awarded whatever your damages are plus court costs. The court costs are basically the filing fees.
 

abda53

Junior Member
was the contract for $3000 for the entire site or $1500 for the design and $1500 for the programming?

If the former, you breached the contract, the entire contract for $3000, by not completing the work. You may be able to obtain the design work or, hopefully, the value of that work should you go to court. If you don't, he is unjustly enriched. If the latter, there should be little problem obtaining a judgment for the costs of the design work.
The contract was for the full amount, paid in parts, the first $1500 to cover design, the second $1500 to cover programming. The design was paid for and accepted/approved which he received. The programming was not and he was refunded the amount which he paid for for the programming. He could have easily taken the design and used another programmer to complete the job.


You may be able to win. Not enough info here to make that determination though. As to making him pay for the collections; not understanding what you mean. Generally you would be awarded whatever your damages are plus court costs. The court costs are basically the filing fees.
I realize I would most likely have to pay the actual collections myself but I would want him to pay me for the amount of the collection either before or after the debt is paid off.


Thanks for the response.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
abda53;3130759]The contract was for the full amount, paid in parts, the first $1500 to cover design, the second $1500 to cover programming. The design was paid for and accepted/approved which he received. The programming was not and he was refunded the amount which he paid for for the programming. He could have easily taken the design and used another programmer to complete the job.
If the contract was for $3000 for the entire scope of work, you breached the contract. At that point, you need to determine if you have provided a value to the client and if so, what is that value. In your case, it appears the work was clearly broken down into separate sections of work with one of the two sections being completed and accepted. As far as paypal is concerned, since you breached the contract, their actions would be proper. They are not a court and have no right in attempting to apportion the value for the work completed or to order the return of the work that was already delivered to the client. That is something you would have to deal with in a court.



I realize I would most likely have to pay the actual collections myself but I would want him to pay me for the amount of the collection either before or after the debt is paid off.
still not understanding what you are referring to with the "collections". If you mean the paypal account; that is all on you. He is not liable for the standing of your account.

as I said before; you would likely have a valid claim for either the return of the work already delivered or payment for that work. That is not going to change anything, or actually have anything to do with your paypal account.
 

abda53

Junior Member
as I said before; you would likely have a valid claim for either the return of the work already delivered or payment for that work. That is not going to change anything, or actually have anything to do with your paypal account.
Right, but as far as Paypal is concerned, he sent $1500 for the design work and he received (and accepted) the design work. He didn't have an issue with the design because he never would have started payments for programming.

As far as Paypal is concerned the design money "should" was paid and delivered. He didn't make a $3000 payment for design and programming. He made a $1500 payment for design which he got, and technically he never paid the full amount for the programming, he only paid $300.

(not trying to argue with you, just trying to sort it out)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
abda53;3130764]Right, but as far as Paypal is concerned, he sent $1500 for the design work and he received (and accepted) the design work. He didn't have an issue with the design because he never would have started payments for programming.
As far as Paypal is concerned the design money "should" was paid and delivered. He didn't make a $3000 payment for design and programming. He made a $1500 payment for design which he got, and technically he never paid the full amount for the programming, he only paid $300.
so he made a partial payment on the $3000 contract. A contract you never fulfilled. So, let's use an analogy:

you sold a car. The tires and wheels are worth $1500 and the rest of the car, without tires, is worth $1500. You sent him the car sans wheels and tires. You then said you cannot complete the transaction. He now has a car with no wheels or tires. Have you fulfilled one of two $1500 contracts or have you breached a $3000 contract?

as far as Paypal is concerned, you have breached a $3000 contract. If you want to argue that point, you will have to take the buyer to court. It is not up to Paypal to become the arbitrator and determine if there is a partial value provided for the $1500 and as such, allow you to retain the $1500.
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
"Family problems" should not have prevented you from doing the work you agreed to do. I wouldn't have accepted such a BS excuse either. I suggest in the future that you keep your personal and professional lives seperate.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
The other party (not the OP) deserves the design and programming of a website to specifications for $3,000. The OP deserves the value of his work. The proper remedy would be for the other party to get another person to complete the website. The total amount to be paid should be $3,000. If it costs him more than that to complete, he should get it from the OP. While he should not have self-helped to the money through lies to paypal, I'm not sure the OP's remedy until the site is completed and the damages known. If I were to be the other party and were in this situation I would take the amount it cost me over $3,000 from the $1,500 and give the rest to the OP. The OP would probably accept that. But, the OP should certainly sue for the $1,500 if the other party does not seasonably complete the project and should send a demand letter stating the position.
 

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