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rightful ownership of a vehicle

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Chadkessin45

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? = Virginia

I have a family friend who seems to have gotten himself in a legal situation with one of his family members and needs some help. The situation is as follows.

The family friend, Fred, purchased a car some years ago nearly new and has owned and paid on the vehicle since 2004. Within the last year his eyesight and mental capacity have begun to fail him resulting in him having a few minor accidents with the car. The most recent one involved him backing into a parked police car in front of the officer. Minor damage less than~ 500 dollars worth. At that point in time it was recommended by his daughter that he “give” the truck to her to take care of since he couldn’t be trusted to drive anymore. His daughter was with him at the time of the accident, the police officer and daughter applied some pressure for Fred to give the truck to his daughter. Fred did so begrudgingly but did give his daughter possession of the car. The car remained in Fred’s name and the lien on the vehicle also remained in his name. It was relayed by his daughter that she would be taking over the payments on the car and ownership. Fred did not agree to that verbally or in writing..

Subsequently the bank that has a lien on the car began calling Fred saying that his car payment had not been made. He called his daughter asking her to return the car and asked why the payments had not been made if she was going to keep the car. She replied several times that the bank was incorrect that she was making the payments and assured Fred that she was not going to harm his credit. Fred stated then that he wanted her to bring the car back to him so he could sell the vehicle as he was attempting to get disability because of his diminished physical capacity and would need the money to live on. The car payments continued not to be made by his daughter and the car was re-possessed by the finance company. Once the car was repo’ed Fred contacted my mother telling her about the situation and his diminishing capacity and asked my mother to help him with his finances and become his power of attorney. My mother talked to the finance company and tried to determine what they needed to do to catch the truck payments up and get it out of delinquency; so Fred could then sell the car and pay off the small lien and use the rest for living expenses. Meanwhile Fred’s daughter talked to Fred and promised that she would pay the catch up payments and pay the truck off for him if he would give the finance company permission to talk to her so she could get the truck out of delinquency. He gave her permission to discuss the situation with the finance company but told her that he needed his truck back so he could sell it for living expenses. His daughter was successful in getting the truck back and took possession of the vehicle once again. Within the first month after his daughter regained possession of the car the finance company was calling Fred again about his delinquent payments. Being unemployed and unable to make his car payments because of his medical conditions. Fred asked his daughter once again to bring the truck back so he could sell it for living expenses and to pay off the lien and save his credit. His daughter refused. Fred then calls local law enforcement and asked them to come with him and a friend so they could get the truck since he was the legal owner at the time. Fred was successful in retaining possession of the car.



He then asked my mother to sell the car, She did and paid the lien off and kept the remaining funds to live on.

His daughter now is bringing a lawsuit against her father for the ownership of the car or financial compensation. She is claiming that she was the rightful owner of the car although she was not the registered owner and did not have the title. She also claimed she is due attorney’s fees and repayment of interest of 6% and repairs she made on the car while she possessed it. She did have a clutch put in the car while she possessed it and used it daily as she has no vehicle of her own. She also had it detailed and installed a high quality radio. While she possessed the car she made no timely payments and allowed the car to be repossessed which hurt Fred’s credit. Although she did pay the catch up payments and fees to get the truck out of delinquency allowing her to regain possession. She then did not make another payment and the car once again was delinquent when Fred took the police to go get the vehicle and pay it off. Does his daughter have a claim for the car or damages at all? During this whole period the car was registered in Fred’s name, the lien was solely in Fred’s name. The repossession really damaged Fred’s credit. When Fred sold the truck he paid the liens off and transferred the title to the new owner.

Does his daughter have any legal claim? In my opinion she took possession under duress did not make any timely payments on the car until it was repossessed. After paying to get it out of hock she then failed to make any new payments after that allowing the lien to become defaulted again. Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to show the repeated attempts by Fred to regain possession in an peaceful manner and make right his lien even though he is jobless and woefully short of money because of his diminished capacity. Thanks in advance for your advice/opinions
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? = Virginia

I have a family friend who seems to have gotten himself in a legal situation with one of his family members and needs some help. The situation is as follows.

The family friend, Fred, purchased a car some years ago nearly new and has owned and paid on the vehicle since 2004. Within the last year his eyesight and mental capacity have begun to fail him resulting in him having a few minor accidents with the car. The most recent one involved him backing into a parked police car in front of the officer. Minor damage less than~ 500 dollars worth. At that point in time it was recommended by his daughter that he “give” the truck to her to take care of since he couldn’t be trusted to drive anymore. His daughter was with him at the time of the accident, the police officer and daughter applied some pressure for Fred to give the truck to his daughter. Fred did so begrudgingly but did give his daughter possession of the car. The car remained in Fred’s name and the lien on the vehicle also remained in his name. It was relayed by his daughter that she would be taking over the payments on the car and ownership. Fred did not agree to that verbally or in writing..

Subsequently the bank that has a lien on the car began calling Fred saying that his car payment had not been made. He called his daughter asking her to return the car and asked why the payments had not been made if she was going to keep the car. She replied several times that the bank was incorrect that she was making the payments and assured Fred that she was not going to harm his credit. Fred stated then that he wanted her to bring the car back to him so he could sell the vehicle as he was attempting to get disability because of his diminished physical capacity and would need the money to live on. The car payments continued not to be made by his daughter and the car was re-possessed by the finance company. Once the car was repo’ed Fred contacted my mother telling her about the situation and his diminishing capacity and asked my mother to help him with his finances and become his power of attorney. My mother talked to the finance company and tried to determine what they needed to do to catch the truck payments up and get it out of delinquency; so Fred could then sell the car and pay off the small lien and use the rest for living expenses. Meanwhile Fred’s daughter talked to Fred and promised that she would pay the catch up payments and pay the truck off for him if he would give the finance company permission to talk to her so she could get the truck out of delinquency. He gave her permission to discuss the situation with the finance company but told her that he needed his truck back so he could sell it for living expenses. His daughter was successful in getting the truck back and took possession of the vehicle once again. Within the first month after his daughter regained possession of the car the finance company was calling Fred again about his delinquent payments. Being unemployed and unable to make his car payments because of his medical conditions. Fred asked his daughter once again to bring the truck back so he could sell it for living expenses and to pay off the lien and save his credit. His daughter refused. Fred then calls local law enforcement and asked them to come with him and a friend so they could get the truck since he was the legal owner at the time. Fred was successful in retaining possession of the car.



He then asked my mother to sell the car, She did and paid the lien off and kept the remaining funds to live on.

His daughter now is bringing a lawsuit against her father for the ownership of the car or financial compensation. She is claiming that she was the rightful owner of the car although she was not the registered owner and did not have the title. She also claimed she is due attorney’s fees and repayment of interest of 6% and repairs she made on the car while she possessed it. She did have a clutch put in the car while she possessed it and used it daily as she has no vehicle of her own. She also had it detailed and installed a high quality radio. While she possessed the car she made no timely payments and allowed the car to be repossessed which hurt Fred’s credit. Although she did pay the catch up payments and fees to get the truck out of delinquency allowing her to regain possession. She then did not make another payment and the car once again was delinquent when Fred took the police to go get the vehicle and pay it off. Does his daughter have a claim for the car or damages at all? During this whole period the car was registered in Fred’s name, the lien was solely in Fred’s name. The repossession really damaged Fred’s credit. When Fred sold the truck he paid the liens off and transferred the title to the new owner.

Does his daughter have any legal claim? In my opinion she took possession under duress did not make any timely payments on the car until it was repossessed. After paying to get it out of hock she then failed to make any new payments after that allowing the lien to become defaulted again. Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to show the repeated attempts by Fred to regain possession in an peaceful manner and make right his lien even though he is jobless and woefully short of money because of his diminished capacity. Thanks in advance for your advice/opinions
Your family friend needs to consult with an attorney.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? = Virginia

I have a family friend who seems to have gotten himself in a legal situation with one of his family members and needs some help. The situation is as follows.

The family friend, Fred, purchased a car some years ago nearly new and has owned and paid on the vehicle since 2004. Within the last year his eyesight and mental capacity have begun to fail him resulting in him having a few minor accidents with the car. The most recent one involved him backing into a parked police car in front of the officer. Minor damage less than~ 500 dollars worth. At that point in time it was recommended by his daughter that he “give” the truck to her to take care of since he couldn’t be trusted to drive anymore. His daughter was with him at the time of the accident, the police officer and daughter applied some pressure for Fred to give the truck to his daughter. Fred did so begrudgingly but did give his daughter possession of the car. The car remained in Fred’s name and the lien on the vehicle also remained in his name. It was relayed by his daughter that she would be taking over the payments on the car and ownership. Fred did not agree to that verbally or in writing..

Subsequently the bank that has a lien on the car began calling Fred saying that his car payment had not been made. He called his daughter asking her to return the car and asked why the payments had not been made if she was going to keep the car. She replied several times that the bank was incorrect that she was making the payments and assured Fred that she was not going to harm his credit. Fred stated then that he wanted her to bring the car back to him so he could sell the vehicle as he was attempting to get disability because of his diminished physical capacity and would need the money to live on. The car payments continued not to be made by his daughter and the car was re-possessed by the finance company. Once the car was repo’ed Fred contacted my mother telling her about the situation and his diminishing capacity and asked my mother to help him with his finances and become his power of attorney. My mother talked to the finance company and tried to determine what they needed to do to catch the truck payments up and get it out of delinquency; so Fred could then sell the car and pay off the small lien and use the rest for living expenses. Meanwhile Fred’s daughter talked to Fred and promised that she would pay the catch up payments and pay the truck off for him if he would give the finance company permission to talk to her so she could get the truck out of delinquency. He gave her permission to discuss the situation with the finance company but told her that he needed his truck back so he could sell it for living expenses. His daughter was successful in getting the truck back and took possession of the vehicle once again. Within the first month after his daughter regained possession of the car the finance company was calling Fred again about his delinquent payments. Being unemployed and unable to make his car payments because of his medical conditions. Fred asked his daughter once again to bring the truck back so he could sell it for living expenses and to pay off the lien and save his credit. His daughter refused. Fred then calls local law enforcement and asked them to come with him and a friend so they could get the truck since he was the legal owner at the time. Fred was successful in retaining possession of the car.



He then asked my mother to sell the car, She did and paid the lien off and kept the remaining funds to live on.

His daughter now is bringing a lawsuit against her father for the ownership of the car or financial compensation. She is claiming that she was the rightful owner of the car although she was not the registered owner and did not have the title. She also claimed she is due attorney’s fees and repayment of interest of 6% and repairs she made on the car while she possessed it. She did have a clutch put in the car while she possessed it and used it daily as she has no vehicle of her own. She also had it detailed and installed a high quality radio. While she possessed the car she made no timely payments and allowed the car to be repossessed which hurt Fred’s credit. Although she did pay the catch up payments and fees to get the truck out of delinquency allowing her to regain possession. She then did not make another payment and the car once again was delinquent when Fred took the police to go get the vehicle and pay it off. Does his daughter have a claim for the car or damages at all? During this whole period the car was registered in Fred’s name, the lien was solely in Fred’s name. The repossession really damaged Fred’s credit. When Fred sold the truck he paid the liens off and transferred the title to the new owner.

Does his daughter have any legal claim? In my opinion she took possession under duress did not make any timely payments on the car until it was repossessed. After paying to get it out of hock she then failed to make any new payments after that allowing the lien to become defaulted again. Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to show the repeated attempts by Fred to regain possession in an peaceful manner and make right his lien even though he is jobless and woefully short of money because of his diminished capacity. Thanks in advance for your advice/opinions

**A: how much are we talking about here?
 

Chadkessin45

Junior Member
The original amount she was claiming was 1,600 for the clutch and the pmt's and fees she paid to get it out of hock. The summons however said she wants the truck and payment of legal fees or 8,400 dollars! She did mention though through a family memeber she would settle for 2000... not sure why.

An attorney was conslulted when Fred received the demand letter from his daughters attorney. The attorney Fred consulted looked at the demand letter, laughed told fred to throw the demand letter in the trash and to immeadiately sell the car. That he was the rightful owner and it was his to sell and to sell the car quickly. The lawyer said if they heard anymore about it to contact him, but he doubted that she would go through with such a poor case.

Also, would the purchaser of the car be liable to surrender the car and then have to get his money back from Fred? Or was it a legal transaction given the fact that the new owner knew nothing of the legal problems and Fred was the registered owner? I told Fred to consult the attorney again and find out how much its going to cost him and to counter sue and ask for attorneys fees himself.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
The original amount she was claiming was 1,600 for the clutch and the pmt's and fees she paid to get it out of hock. The summons however said she wants the truck and payment of legal fees or 8,400 dollars! She did mention though through a family memeber she would settle for 2000... not sure why.

An attorney was conslulted when Fred received the demand letter from his daughters attorney. The attorney Fred consulted looked at the demand letter, laughed told fred to throw the demand letter in the trash and to immeadiately sell the car. That he was the rightful owner and it was his to sell and to sell the car quickly. The lawyer said if they heard anymore about it to contact him, but he doubted that she would go through with such a poor case.

Also, would the purchaser of the car be liable to surrender the car and then have to get his money back from Fred? Or was it a legal transaction given the fact that the new owner knew nothing of the legal problems and Fred was the registered owner? I told Fred to consult the attorney again and find out how much its going to cost him and to counter sue and ask for attorneys fees himself.
What happened when Fred contacted the lawyer after receiving the lawsuit?
 

Chadkessin45

Junior Member
Fred hasn't met with the attorney who gave him the advice to sell the car since he received the summons. He's got an appt with him wed I believe. Fred is very distraught that his daughter would do this to him and given his disminished mental capacity is extremely upset and unsure of what to do. My mothers going with him to the lawyers office for the consult. Fred has mentioned about just letting his daughter win a judgement against him and not even show up for the court date. I told my mother that was a very bad idea. He is concerned that he won't be able to pay for his attorney. So my mom is going to talk to the original lawyer and find out his fee then maybe consult with some one with the state for help from a legal aide group. I sincerely hope that his daughter will not be able to take advantage of him. I'm also concerned that he may be liable to the new owner of the vehicle if that person has to surrender it and go after Fred for a money judgment... It's a very sad affair
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
The original amount she was claiming was 1,600 for the clutch and the pmt's and fees she paid to get it out of hock. The summons however said she wants the truck and payment of legal fees or 8,400 dollars! She did mention though through a family memeber she would settle for 2000... not sure why.

An attorney was conslulted when Fred received the demand letter from his daughters attorney. The attorney Fred consulted looked at the demand letter, laughed told fred to throw the demand letter in the trash and to immeadiately sell the car. That he was the rightful owner and it was his to sell and to sell the car quickly. The lawyer said if they heard anymore about it to contact him, but he doubted that she would go through with such a poor case.

Also, would the purchaser of the car be liable to surrender the car and then have to get his money back from Fred? Or was it a legal transaction given the fact that the new owner knew nothing of the legal problems and Fred was the registered owner? I told Fred to consult the attorney again and find out how much its going to cost him and to counter sue and ask for attorneys fees himself.
No, the purchaser of the vehicle would not have to give it back. Its a purely financial matter now between Fred and his daughter.
 

Chadkessin45

Junior Member
I thought this would be a small claims matter as well, but his daughter retained the attorney after Fred took his car back with the police’s help. Her attorney sent the original demand letter and the subsequent summons. There is no way Fred could defend himself in court. His eyesight is quite bad now and his limited knowledge of the legal system and courts would guarantee a bad outcome for him. I was surprised that the attorney he met with after receiving the demand letter seemed so unconcerned about his daughters claim to begin with. He didn’t charge Fred for the initial meeting and said he was pretty certain that Fred would hear no more about it. Now that she’s determined to go through with the suit, it seems he’s definitely going to need some legal help. I hate that my mother is involved with the matter now. But I can see her concern for a longtime family friend that has fell on hard times. I have offered to help pay some of his legal fees if they are too expensive. I would hate to see him taken advantage of.
 

Chadkessin45

Junior Member
Thanks I wouldn't think she had much of one either. She coerced her father in letting her have the car, didn't make payments on it when it was in her possession. She allowed someone's car she was in my mind holding without permission to become defaulted by not allowing him to regain possession and sell the car when he lost his job. Although she did pay to get the car back from being reposseded had she handed the car back to Fred in the first place it would have never became a defaulted car loan as he did sell it quickly and pay off the debt. She did make some repairs to the vehicle at her choosing and thinking the car was hers free and clear. I see those costs she incurred at her own free will and represent a form of "rent" or a use fee for using the car which he was demanding she return. I honestly can't believe she has a case either but was very concerned about the issue. Thanks everyone for your time and assistance.
 

albertldee

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? = Virginia

I have a family friend who seems to have gotten himself in a legal situation with one of his family members and needs some help. The situation is as follows.

The family friend, Fred, purchased a car some years ago nearly new and has owned and paid on the vehicle since 2004. Within the last year his eyesight and mental capacity have begun to fail him resulting in him having a few minor accidents with the car. The most recent one involved him backing into a parked police car in front of the officer. Minor damage less than~ 500 dollars worth. At that point in time it was recommended by his daughter that he “give” the truck to her to take care of since he couldn’t be trusted to drive anymore. His daughter was with him at the time of the accident, the police officer and daughter applied some pressure for Fred to give the truck to his daughter. Fred did so begrudgingly but did give his daughter possession of the car. The car remained in Fred’s name and the lien on the vehicle also remained in his name. It was relayed by his daughter that she would be taking over the payments on the car and ownership. Fred did not agree to that verbally or in writing..

Subsequently the bank that has a lien on the car began calling Fred saying that his car payment had not been made. He called his daughter asking her to return the car and asked why the payments had not been made if she was going to keep the car. She replied several times that the bank was incorrect that she was making the payments and assured Fred that she was not going to harm his credit. Fred stated then that he wanted her to bring the car back to him so he could sell the vehicle as he was attempting to get disability because of his diminished physical capacity and would need the money to live on. The car payments continued not to be made by his daughter and the car was re-possessed by the finance company. Once the car was repo’ed Fred contacted my mother telling her about the situation and his diminishing capacity and asked my mother to help him with his finances and become his power of attorney. My mother talked to the finance company and tried to determine what they needed to do to catch the truck payments up and get it out of delinquency; so Fred could then sell the car and pay off the small lien and use the rest for living expenses. Meanwhile Fred’s daughter talked to Fred and promised that she would pay the catch up payments and pay the truck off for him if he would give the finance company permission to talk to her so she could get the truck out of delinquency. He gave her permission to discuss the situation with the finance company but told her that he needed his truck back so he could sell it for living expenses. His daughter was successful in getting the truck back and took possession of the vehicle once again. Within the first month after his daughter regained possession of the car the finance company was calling Fred again about his delinquent payments. Being unemployed and unable to make his car payments because of his medical conditions. Fred asked his daughter once again to bring the truck back so he could sell it for living expenses and to pay off the lien and save his credit. His daughter refused. Fred then calls local law enforcement and asked them to come with him and a friend so they could get the truck since he was the legal owner at the time. Fred was successful in retaining possession of the car.



He then asked my mother to sell the car, She did and paid the lien off and kept the remaining funds to live on.

His daughter now is bringing a lawsuit against her father for the ownership of the car or financial compensation. She is claiming that she was the rightful owner of the car although she was not the registered owner and did not have the title. She also claimed she is due attorney’s fees and repayment of interest of 6% and repairs she made on the car while she possessed it. She did have a clutch put in the car while she possessed it and used it daily as she has no vehicle of her own. She also had it detailed and installed a high quality radio. While she possessed the car she made no timely payments and allowed the car to be repossessed which hurt Fred’s credit. Although she did pay the catch up payments and fees to get the truck out of delinquency allowing her to regain possession. She then did not make another payment and the car once again was delinquent when Fred took the police to go get the vehicle and pay it off. Does his daughter have a claim for the car or damages at all? During this whole period the car was registered in Fred’s name, the lien was solely in Fred’s name. The repossession really damaged Fred’s credit. When Fred sold the truck he paid the liens off and transferred the title to the new owner.

Does his daughter have any legal claim? In my opinion she took possession under duress did not make any timely payments on the car until it was repossessed. After paying to get it out of hock she then failed to make any new payments after that allowing the lien to become defaulted again. Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to show the repeated attempts by Fred to regain possession in an peaceful manner and make right his lien even though he is jobless and woefully short of money because of his diminished capacity. Thanks in advance for your advice/opinions
if you write this in your responce there is no way the judge will side with her as long as that truck was delinquent when he repo it she has no case however you will need to get the payment history from the finance company and credit report showing the damage to his credit
anything she add or fix on the vehicle is not applicable, she was in possesion of the vechile and responsible for all repair, it's like me buying a car invest $5000 in a sound system dont make the payment then tell the repo/finance company i should get that money back for the radio
she does not have a case but you should have documentation
 

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