small claims court is a joke

[diane360]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Washington

My father and I were sued in small claims court in Jan. We both were defendants in this suit. I had sued for a countersuit against them because my father and I were in the right. The commissioner was the man we drew because the dockets were so full. This jerk listened to the plaintiffs, forgot to swear them in till their testimony was half done. I had four witnesses. When it got to my counterclaim, the judge (commissioner) maybe let me say three sentences and would not hear my witnesses at all. This man passed judgment on us without even reading my evidence. I was being sued for an a/c unit I paid 425 dollars, I had the receipt and store slip. The defendant took a copy of this 596.00 a/c from Sears (off the internet) and that is what he made me pay. She did not even buy this a/c because there is now a window where the a/c was. The judge did not even look for a receipt from her. She did not have one, but he did not even ask. When I asked him to look at my cancelled check, he told me to shut up. I was not even rude to the sob. I did seek a lawyer's advice before the court date. He charged me four dollars A MINUTE for stupid advice. After paying him eighty dollars for nothing, I knew I could not afford to hire a real lawyer and fight this, even though I know I was in the right. So, I choose small claims court....what a costly mistake that was. I have thirty day to pay her for something she did not even buy. The total judgment was 3,220.10. I was sued for bar stools and an a/c unit that I took out of my business when they bought the property I was leasing. She would not even allow me to sell my business, gave me less than 24 hours to move. I had witnesses to testify they tried to buy my business. I had four signed contracts. The judge would not even look at my evidence. Since then, I have not found work for seven mos now, lost my father due to their harrassment, which was also part of my suit, judge did not look at that evidence either. I went to working my own business (always in the black) to losing my father due to stress, he had a heartattack and past away. I am now on public assistance with food card. All my savings are gone to live on without a job and then the rest went when I had to buy my father. Now, I cannot pay this judgment either. I feel if you have the money to hire a lawyer, even though small claims is SO much cheaper, do it. Just try to find a good lawyer, I'm still looking for one. Is there such an animal? I have a nasty taste in my mouth about our justice system, it sucks!
I could have filed an appeal, but I would have had to put up double, 6,440.20
and by then I ran out of money. If this jerk commissioner comes up for relelection, I am writing a letter to the editor on this man wiho passes judgment on people without doing his job of reading the countersuit. He should not sit and pass judgment on people if he does not have time to read their evidence. I know had he done this, I would have won. Take my advice if being sued in small claims, it can ruin your life, if you get a judge that does not do his job. This case killed my father and doing major damage to my health as well. Thank you commissioner Vern ****head.

 

[JETX]

This case killed my father and doing major damage to my health as well.

Does it show 'small claims judgment' as the cause of death on his certificate??
And how has this very minor incident caused "major damage" to your health??

 

[diane360]

jetx

My fathers' death certificate says he died of heart failure. Sounds like you are going to make a typical lawyer who wants to line his pockets.
My father and I ran this business for 44 years, I only wanted to get my equipment and move my business to another location. Because my father did not have a written lease, he had an oral lease, the old landlords lied about the refridgeration system, said it was theirs, I have receipts that I bought a totally new system costing 6k . I was not given time to remove that. They have a new lessee who now uses my refridgeration system. Did not cost him a dime to start his business because the new landlords took everything I bought to put in the business. And you ask how this is effecting my health?
I went from a proud business owner to food stamps from the state of Washington. ALL BECAUSE I WENT TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT AND GOT A MAN WHO SHOULD NOT BE SITTING JUDGING OTHERS WHEN HE WOULD NOT EVEN READ THE EVIDENCE. Would your health not be effected by something like this? You should become a judge just like the one I had, so you can pass judgement on honest people who work hard and then some jerk passes judgement to ruin your life. Shakesphere had it right....Let's kill all the lawyers (and judges too.) Some judges and lawyers are the scum of the earth. I'm sure many people would agree with me. I will never go to small claims court again. I still have a bad check from a customer and I will not be pursing it in small claims court. EVER
If I don't sell my house soon, I will be homeless. Isn't America great?

 

[JETX]

My father and I ran this business for 44 years, I only wanted to get my equipment and move my business to another location. Because my father did not have a written lease, he had an oral lease, the old landlords lied about the refridgeration system, said it was theirs, I have receipts that I bought a totally new system costing 6k . I was not given time to remove that.

If by 'your equipment', you mean the refrigeration system, you had no legal right to remove it. Simply, once a tenant makes a 'physical' change to fixtures, like adding walls, plumbing, new air conditioning, etc., it becomes a part of the landlords property.

They have a new lessee who now uses my refridgeration system. Did not cost him a dime to start his business because the new landlords took everything I bought to put in the business.

See above.

And you ask how this is effecting my health?
I went from a proud business owner to food stamps from the state of Washington.

Sorry, but your 'going to food stamps' is not 'major damage' to your health.

ALL BECAUSE I WENT TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT AND GOT A MAN WHO SHOULD NOT BE SITTING JUDGING OTHERS WHEN HE WOULD NOT EVEN READ THE EVIDENCE.

Again, based solely on YOUR post (and assuming your only real issue was this refrigeration system in a commercial lease), I really don't see where the court err'ed in its ruling.

Would your health not be effected by something like this?

Nope. I wouldn't let a simple issue of a refrigeration system do that.

You should become a judge just like the one I had, so you can pass judgement on honest people who work hard and then some jerk passes judgement to ruin your life.

Darling, I have been before some real incompetents in court.... on both sides of the bench. And as noted above, I really don't see anything wrong with the courts decision based on the very limited information you have provided.

Shakesphere had it right....Let's kill all the lawyers (and judges too.)

And lets include those people who try to use a relatively minor problem in life as an excuse for all their life's faults.

Some judges and lawyers are the scum of the earth. I'm sure many people would agree with me. I will never go to small claims court again. I still have a bad check from a customer and I will not be pursing it in small claims court. EVER

Clearly, you don't understand the legal process.... and have suffered from your ignorance.
Your entire problem can be answered with a very simple question.... "If you feel that injustice was done, why didn't you appeal the courts ruiling??"

If I don't sell my house soon, I will be homeless. Isn't America great?

I really don't see how you can try to blame this small court ruling (apparently less than $6k!!) for all your life's problems!! You really do need a reality check.

 

[briannamc]

Jetx is full of B.S.

My fathers' death certificate says he died of heart failure. Sounds like you are going to make a typical lawyer who wants to line his pockets.
My father and I ran this business for 44 years, I only wanted to get my equipment and move my business to another location. Because my father did not have a written lease, he had an oral lease, the old landlords lied about the refridgeration system, said it was theirs, I have receipts that I bought a totally new system costing 6k . I was not given time to remove that. They have a new lessee who now uses my refridgeration system. Did not cost him a dime to start his business because the new landlords took everything I bought to put in the business. And you ask how this is effecting my health?
I went from a proud business owner to food stamps from the state of Washington. ALL BECAUSE I WENT TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT AND GOT A MAN WHO SHOULD NOT BE SITTING JUDGING OTHERS WHEN HE WOULD NOT EVEN READ THE EVIDENCE. Would your health not be effected by something like this? You should become a judge just like the one I had, so you can pass judgement on honest people who work hard and then some jerk passes judgement to ruin your life. Shakesphere had it right....Let's kill all the lawyers (and judges too.) Some judges and lawyers are the scum of the earth. I'm sure many people would agree with me. I will never go to small claims court again. I still have a bad check from a customer and I will not be pursing it in small claims court. EVER
If I don't sell my house soon, I will be homeless. Isn't America great?

The last apartment I lived in I installed my kitchen appliances and they removed theirs. When I bought a house a few months later (short-term rental), I removed the appliances and they reinstalled theirs.

As far as business, buildings are routinely rented and tenants put in new systems then remove them before they leave. Why the hell was a judge not over your small claims court case? I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[JETX]

The last apartment I lived in I installed my kitchen appliances and they removed theirs. When I bought a house a few months later (short-term rental), I removed the appliances and they reinstalled theirs.

Interesting.... and what does your 'experience' with a residential apartment have to do with this thread about COMMERCIAL lease???
Nothing of course.
And I guess you forgot to mention that your 'swap-out' was with the prior permission of the landlord, huh??

As far as business, buildings are routinely rented and tenants put in new systems then remove them before they leave.

And of course, that is all crap. Even a first year law student knows that ANY fixtures installed during a tenancy become a part of the property.

Why the hell was a judge not over your small claims court case? I've never heard of such a thing.

Gee, you must be a legal novice (or less), huh?? Lots of jurisdictions have 'substitute' judges/magistrates to hear small claims (or equal) cases.

 

[diane360]

small claims is a joke

I don't know what planet you are studying from, but I have talked to a lot of business owners who lease a building, put in their equipment and when they sell their business or move their business, ALL of them said they took their equipment with them. Not any of the 8 business owners had a problem taking their equipment, but me. I know the difference between residential and commercial. If I rented an apartment and the fridge broke down and the landlord replaced it.........I would not expect to take his new fridge.
I tried to sell my business. I had four signed contracts and the landlords would not interview any of them. They leased to a friend they knew. So, I not only lost the sell of the business and all my equipment, not to mention the life of my father. I had less than 24 hrs to move, which by the way is illegal also.
When my father leased this building 44 yrs ago, the last lessee had a piece of aluminum foil and fan for his cooling system. My dad bought a used refridgeration system. Used it for years, when I bought the business from my father, it was pretty worn out. I had to put a lot of money into his old system. I got tired of putting so much money in this old system...I did buy a state of the art refridgeration system. I had the coldest beer in town. It cost me 6k for the system. Their friend is now using my system and making money by using it. I did not get to take it nor did I get a penny for it. Jetx, you need to study harder or go to another law school. I can tell by your comments, you will be a carbon copy of the jackasses I had to deal with in court. Could it be all 8 of these business owners be wrong, or maybe it is you Mr. Jetx? I hope this is only your first year at college, and not close to your graduation.

 

[JETX]

I don't know what planet you are studying from, but I have talked to a lot of business owners who lease a building, put in their equipment and when they sell their business or move their business, ALL of them said they took their equipment with them.

Nice 'attempted spin'. Problem is, we aren't talking about EQUIPEMENT!! Of course no one expects the tenant/business to have to leave their copier!!

However, if the tenant/business installs a new air conditioner, installed lighting, 220 circuit lines, new walls, etc., those FIXTURES become a part of the physical property.... and remain when the tenant leaves (unless agreed otherwise).

Not any of the 8 business owners had a problem taking their equipment, but me.

Again, it depends on whether the issue was EQUIPMENT.... or fixtures.

From another website, 'Understanding Commercial Leases':
The following checklist includes many items that are often addressed in commercial leases. Pay attention to terms regarding:
whether there will be improvements, modifications (called build outs when new space is being finished to your specifications) or fixtures added to the space, who will pay for them and who will own them after the lease ends (generally, the landlord does)
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-operations/commercial-real-estate/commercial-real-estate-lease-overview(1).html

I tried to sell my business. I had four signed contracts and the landlords would not interview any of them. They leased to a friend they knew. So, I not only lost the sell of the business and all my equipment, not to mention the life of my father.

Why would the landlord have the right to 'review' and approve your business buyers??

I had less than 24 hrs to move, which by the way is illegal also.

And of course, not true.

I did buy a state of the art refridgeration system. I had the coldest beer in town. It cost me 6k for the system.

And of course, BEFORE you purchased and installed that system, you talked this over with the landlord and have a written agreement as to who owns the 'FIXTURE and its removal in the event your lease rights were terminated, didn't you??

Their friend is now using my system and making money by using it. I did not get to take it nor did I get a penny for it.

Okay, so it is clear that you were an idiot on this 'transaction', took no steps to protect yourself and simply allowed a (possibly) unscrupulous landlord to 'screw you'.

Jetx, you need to study harder or go to another law school.

I don't think so. You need to step back a little bit and see where your mistakes were.... and accept responsibility for your failures (as noted above). This entire situation could have very easily been avoided with your taking some minimal steps.

I can tell by your comments, you will be a carbon copy of the jackasses I had to deal with in court.

And I can tell from your continual denial of the facts, that you are the typical myopic business owner who somehow thinks you are impervious to the facts of life.... and have NO legal knowledge, experience or even the awareness to realize it.

Could it be all 8 of these business owners be wrong, or maybe it is you Mr. Jetx?

Nope. It is YOUR failure to understand the FACT that unless there is something to the contrary (in WRITING), a FIXTURE installed by a commercial tenant (and residential in some cases), becomes a part of the LANDLORDS property.

I hope this is only your first year at college, and not close to your graduation.

Sorry deary, I graduated long ago.

Oh, and one more website that might help you to understand the REALITIES of the business world.... and fixtures/leases:
Typical examples of property that have, in California, and subject to various intentions, been held as fixtures are:
1. Refrigeration systems.
http://www.stimmel-law.com/articles/Fixtures_In_Commercial_Leases.html

 

[diane360]

what is your answer for this Mr. Jetx?

I would like to talk about the a/c unit I bought. When my father owned the business, there was an exhaust fan. So the hole was already cut in the wall.
I simply took the fan out, DID NOT make the hole any bigger, bought an a/c that would fit in the hole without altering the hole size. I used a brace to hold the a/c and held it up on the outside. I saved the exhause fan, cleaned it up and put it back in the hole in the wall, and took my ac unit.
I payed 425.00 for the unit and her printed out sheet from Sears was more btus and much more money. She did not buy this unit, just took a picture of it and the price was on the paper she downloaded was 596.00. She put a window in the hole where my ac unit was. I had a picture for the judge to see, but he would not even look at my evidence. I had to pay her price for the ac unit. Now, the way I understand the law, is the plaintiff is to be made whole............NOT IN BETTER SHAPE THEN THE DEFENDANT WAS. Give me a web site where it says this information is wrong. I'll bet you are a republican too. You are wrong Mr. Lawyer and I hope I never walk into your office to get your advice or representation. God forbid.

 

[JETX]

I would like to talk about the a/c unit I bought.

Then

You are wrong Mr. Lawyer and I hope I never walk into your office to get your advice or representation.

So, which is it?? Do you want to "talk about the a/c unit" or do you "hope I never walk into your office"??
In the real world (where most of us exist), you can't have both.

 

[diane360]

I choose not to walk thru your door

This myopic ex business owner knows she is right about the ac unit.
I read the web site. By the way, the eight business owners I talked to had restaurants or bars and all 8 got away with their refridgeration systems.
My compressor was sitting on a table in the basement, very easty to carry off and the lawyer who charged me four dollars a minute, told me I should have taken it with me. The fan in the cooler was screwed into the wall, which I could have puttied up and taken with me. I don't know mr. jetx, maybe Washington and California have different laws?
I do know one thing, if I ever get back on my feet, and open a new business without a fridge system, The contract I draw up will take the landlords a week to read, because I would not leave a screw out, nor would I walk thru your doors for advice. Have a nice life being a lawyer.

 

[JETX]

By the way, the eight business owners I talked to had restaurants or bars and all 8 got away with their refridgeration systems.

My God woman... are you still here, whining and crying about the situation you created for yourself??!!

Who cares what other owners did?? Next thing you will be saying is that you talked with each of them or reviewed their leases. Simply, what they did or didn't do has NO affect on your situation. Hell, they might have been smarter and included provisions for removing their systems into their leases. Or heaven forbid, they might even have been smart enough to HAVE a written lease!!

My compressor was sitting on a table in the basement, very easty to carry off and the lawyer who charged me four dollars a minute, told me I should have taken it with me.

Hell, I could have told you that for FREE!!

I don't know mr. jetx, maybe Washington and California have different laws?

Gee, do you really think so??? Or do you really think that all state laws are the same?? If that were the case, every state would have casino gambling!!

I do know one thing, if I ever get back on my feet, and open a new business without a fridge system, The contract I draw up will take the landlords a week to read, because I would not leave a screw out, nor would I walk thru your doors for advice.

See, you did learn something here!!

Have a nice life being a lawyer.

Thank you, I will. Oh, and have a nice life as an unemployed 'beer shop owner' on food stamps.

 

[stealth2]

Uuuuh, if you talked to the judge like you talked to Jet - is it really any surprise to you that he didn't rule in your favor?

 

[JETX]

Uuuuh, if you talked to the judge like you talked to Jet - is it really any surprise to you that he didn't rule in your favor?

I can see it now....

diane360 (in a whiney, squally voice): "But your Honor, you didn't look at my pictures!!".

Court: "Ma'am, the legal issues are clear. You installed a FIXTURE and absent any written agreement to the contrary, it became the property of the owner."

diane360 (in a whiney, squally voice): "But your Honor, you didn't look at my pictures!!".

Court: "Ma'am, I have tried to explain, the law is clear on this matter."

diane360 (in a whiney, squally voice): "But your Honor, you didn't look at my pictures!!".

Court: "Ma'am, I can't make it any clearer... you have NO evidence to support your claim that you have the right to remove the property. In fact, why didn't you remove it BEFORE you left??"

diane360 (in a whiney, squally voice): "But your Honor, you didn't look at my pictures!!".

Court: "Ma'am, and why in God's name did you go out and purchase and install that refrigeration unit when you had no written lease... and no written agreement as to the equipment ownership?"

diane360 (in a whiney, squally voice): "But your Honor, you didn't look at my pictures!!".

Court: "Judgment for plaintiff in the amount of $3,220.10. Court is in recess for 10 minutes while I get some aspirin for this headache!"


One question though. Your post says that this refrigeration issue is $596.00. what was the remaining $2600 for???