+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    pegmom3 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    10

    Unhappy Step-dad holding our mothers ashes,against her dying wishes

    Michigan

    My two brothers and I were very very close to our mother,who passed from lung cancer at age 49,in 2007. We watched her wither away and was completely devastated by her condition and grim diagnosis.Her husband talked her out of having a will written up and instead(knowing she had this terminal illness and was receiving treatments and medications that were altering her normal thought process,also the cancer spread to her brain causing mental problems,dificulties/ thinking clearly),had her as his sole beneficiary if he died! Now if that doesn't sound fishy then I don't know what. Anyway, she passed away and about a month later made sure my brothers and I knew we were getting nothing of hers that he promised her we would(my point is not that we wanted these things,but that he promised to carry out her wishes and was trusted by her to do the right thing,and he did the EXACT opposite just in spite of us,because she obviously loved us unconditionally,unlike his sorry a$$) We have witnesses,including her sister and mother of all the things she wished for after her passing.She asked us to have her cremated,so she could be buried with her father who died when she was 3yrs old. To this day, he has spread rumors to all who would listen and lies upon lies about my moms whole family,especially her children, and is holding her ashes "hostage?" He is a sick and twisted man,and has intentionally tried and succeeded at destroying our mental state,made us three children emotionally depressed and hurt beyond belief. It's like he spit on her grave(if she actually had her wishes carried out and was buried. I am sorry for how long this is,but wanted people to know the whole truth of this. I really would like to get him for something,but law is HE of all people is next of kin, ridiculous! They were married for about 8 yrs at the time of her passing. Please tell me if there is some way,something we could hold him accountable for in court,emotional distress?,intentional infliction mental anguish?weather it would be worth the trouble to take him to court or if we have grounds for ANYTHING. Mainly we would just like to BURY HER..finally. We loved her too much to just let this go. We have not had contact with him in over 2yrs,I tried to call him with no strings attached and was hung up on. I am at my wits end, and the depression consumes me at times. Please help,any advice would be greatly appreciated .S. law)?
  2. #2
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO
    Posts
    25,566
    I'm sorry for your loss and disappointment, but your mother's husband IS/WAS her next-of-kin, legally.

    I'm sure your mother wouldn't want you to be so unhappy, and I am sure she would want you to move forward. It's not an honor to her to be so unhappy.

    Perhaps some counseling would help you move forward? I wish you the best.

    Please stand by for more responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by pegmom3 View Post
    Michigan

    My two brothers and I were very very close to our mother,who passed from lung cancer at age 49,in 2007. We watched her wither away and was completely devastated by her condition and grim diagnosis.Her husband talked her out of having a will written up and instead(knowing she had this terminal illness and was receiving treatments and medications that were altering her normal thought process,also the cancer spread to her brain causing mental problems,dificulties/ thinking clearly),had her as his sole beneficiary if he died! Now if that doesn't sound fishy then I don't know what. Anyway, she passed away and about a month later made sure my brothers and I knew we were getting nothing of hers that he promised her we would(my point is not that we wanted these things,but that he promised to carry out her wishes and was trusted by her to do the right thing,and he did the EXACT opposite just in spite of us,because she obviously loved us unconditionally,unlike his sorry a$$) We have witnesses,including her sister and mother of all the things she wished for after her passing.She asked us to have her cremated,so she could be buried with her father who died when she was 3yrs old. To this day, he has spread rumors to all who would listen and lies upon lies about my moms whole family,especially her children, and is holding her ashes "hostage?" He is a sick and twisted man,and has intentionally tried and succeeded at destroying our mental state,made us three children emotionally depressed and hurt beyond belief. It's like he spit on her grave(if she actually had her wishes carried out and was buried. I am sorry for how long this is,but wanted people to know the whole truth of this. I really would like to get him for something,but law is HE of all people is next of kin, ridiculous! They were married for about 8 yrs at the time of her passing. Please tell me if there is some way,something we could hold him accountable for in court,emotional distress?,intentional infliction mental anguish?weather it would be worth the trouble to take him to court or if we have grounds for ANYTHING. Mainly we would just like to BURY HER..finally. We loved her too much to just let this go. We have not had contact with him in over 2yrs,I tried to call him with no strings attached and was hung up on. I am at my wits end, and the depression consumes me at times. Please help,any advice would be greatly appreciated .S. law)?
  3. #3
    justalayman is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in the ether
    Posts
    33,897
    you said there was no will? If not, any property that did not transfer through a joint ownership or POD/TOD designation on the title would be controlled through the laws of intestacy of Michigan. Were there assets not transferred through joint ownership or POD/TOD designation? If so, can you approximate the value?


    I'm trying to find something concerning the disposal of the cremains but I do not see any reason a spouse would not have legal control barring any legally enforceable directive stating otherwise/
  4. #4
    xylene is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    St. Richard's
    Posts
    8,750

    You are blameless for Mom's choices.

    Your mother died entirely too long ago for this to be a proper issue.

    Stepfather wishes to keep her close to him.

    It is his right.

    Your mom chose not to have a will. A bad decision.

    You need to see a counselor so you can see what you are truly angry at and get over it.

    Your mom's cremains are where they are, and they are exactly were HER actions led them to be.

    Understand that, let go, love yourself and stop worrying about a death you didn't cause and could not prevent that happened going on 5 years ago.

    Do you really think getting your mom's mortal remains closer to some other corpse than they are now will heal your pain?
    Last edited by xylene; 05-17-2011 at 03:35 PM.
  5. #5
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    52,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post
    I'm sorry for your loss and disappointment, but your mother's husband IS/WAS her next-of-kin, legally.

    I'm sure your mother wouldn't want you to be so unhappy, and I am sure she would want you to move forward. It's not an honor to her to be so unhappy.

    Perhaps some counseling would help you move forward? I wish you the best.

    Please stand by for more responses.
    NOT TRUE completely. Intestate succession applies. Hubby was ONE kin but the children are due a portion of the estate as well since they were not the children of the hubby. If the estate was NOT probated there are issues and laws were broken.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  6. #6
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO
    Posts
    25,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiogal View Post
    NOT TRUE completely. Intestate succession applies. Hubby was ONE kin but the children are due a portion of the estate as well since they were not the children of the hubby. If the estate was NOT probated there are issues and laws were broken.
    I was referring to the possession of Mom's ashes. Are you saying that the husband is not the next of kin -- and then would the ashes should be divided?
  7. #7
    pegmom3 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by xylene View Post
    Your mother died entirely too long ago for this to be a proper issue.

    Stepfather wishes to keep her close to him.

    It is his right.

    Your mom chose not to have a will. A bad decision.

    You need to see a counselor so you can see what you are truly angry at and get over it.

    Your mom's cremains are where they are, and they are exactly were HER actions led them to be.

    Understand that, let go, love yourself and stop worrying about a death you didn't cause and could not prevent that happened going on 5 years ago.

    Do you really think getting your mom's mortal remains closer to some other corpse than they are now will heal your pain?
    I am only angry he completely disrespected her wishes. It WOULD bring me piece to know she at least had ONE of her wishes carried out. And by the way my grandmother(her mother) paid for the special urn for her wish to be carried out and buried in the plot with her father..if we try to get the urn back he will dump her ashes in a bag and be fine with that. He is not keeping her ashes to be close with her, he has told us he is doing it because he can.
  8. #8
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    52,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post
    I was referring to the possession of Mom's ashes. Are you saying that the husband is not the next of kin -- and then would the ashes should be divided?
    Husband is NOT the only next of kin. The bolded is what applies in this situation.

    700.2102. Share of spouse


    (1) The intestate share of a decedent's surviving spouse is 1 of the following:

    (a) The entire intestate estate if no descendant or parent of the decedent survives the decedent.

    (b) The first $150,000.00, plus 1/2 of any balance of the intestate estate, if all of the decedent's surviving descendants are also descendants of the surviving spouse and there is no other descendant of the surviving spouse who survives the decedent.

    (c) The first $150,000.00, plus 3/4 of any balance of the intestate estate, if no descendant of the decedent survives the decedent, but a parent of the decedent survives the decedent.

    (d) The first $150,000.00, plus 1/2 of any balance of the intestate estate, if all of the decedent's surviving descendants are also descendants of the surviving spouse and the surviving spouse has 1 or more surviving descendants who are not descendants of the decedent.

    (e) The first $150,000.00, plus 1/2 of any balance of the intestate estate, if 1 or more, but not all, of the decedent's surviving descendants are not descendants of the surviving spouse.

    (f) The first $100,000.00, plus 1/2 of any balance of the intestate estate, if none of the decedent's surviving descendants are descendants of the surviving spouse.
    (2) Each dollar amount listed in subsection (1) shall be adjusted as provided in section 1210.
    Part 1. INTESTATE SUCCESSION


    Current through P.A. 24 of 2011 Legislative Session

    700.2103. Share of heirs other than surviving spouse


    Any part of the intestate estate that does not pass to the decedent's surviving spouse under section 2102, or the entire intestate estate if there is no surviving spouse, passes in the following order to the following individuals who survive the decedent:

    (a) The decedent's descendants by representation.

    (b) If there is no surviving descendant, the decedent's parents equally if both survive or to the surviving parent.

    (c) If there is no surviving descendant or parent, the descendants of the decedent's parents or of either of them by representation.

    (d) If there is no surviving descendant, parent, or descendant of a parent, but the decedent is survived by 1 or more grandparents or descendants of grandparents, 1/2 of the estate passes to the decedent's paternal grandparents equally if both survive, or to the surviving paternal grandparent, or to the descendants of the decedent's paternal grandparents or either of them if both are deceased, the descendants taking by representation; and the other 1/2 passes to the decedent's maternal relatives in the same manner. If there is no surviving grandparent or descendant of a grandparent on either the paternal or the maternal side, the entire estate passes to the decedent's relatives on the other side in the same manner as the 1/2.
    Also:
    700.3901. Successors' rights in absence of administration


    In the absence of administration, the decedent's heirs and devisees are entitled to the estate in accordance with the terms of a probated will or the laws of intestate succession. A devisee may establish title by the probated will to devised property. An individual entitled to property by homestead allowance, exemption, or intestacy may establish title to the property by proof of the decedent's ownership, the decedent's death, and the individual's relationship to the decedent. A successor takes subject to charges for administration, including the creditors' claims and the surviving spouse's and dependent children's allowances, and subject to the rights of others resulting from abatement, retainer, advancement, or ademption.
    and
    700.3952. Formal proceedings terminating administration testate or intestate; order of general protection


    (1) A personal representative or an interested person may petition for an order of complete estate settlement. The personal representative may petition at any time, and an interested person may petition after 1 year from the original personal representative's appointment. However, the court shall not accept a petition under this section until the time expires for presenting a claim that arises before the decedent's death.

    (2) A petition under this section may request the court to determine testacy, if not previously determined, to consider the final account, to compel or approve an accounting and distribution, to construe a will or determine heirs, and to adjudicate the estate's final settlement and distribution. After notice to all interested persons and a hearing, the court may enter an order or orders, on appropriate conditions, determining the persons entitled to distribution of the estate, and as circumstances require, approving settlement, directing or approving estate distribution, and discharging the personal representative from further claim or demand of an interested person.

    (3) If 1 or more heirs or devisees were omitted as parties in, or were not given notice of, a previous formal testacy proceeding, on proper petition for an order of complete estate settlement under this section and after notice to the omitted or unnotified persons and other interested persons determined to be interested on the assumption that the previous order concerning testacy is conclusive as to those given notice of the earlier proceeding, the court may determine testacy as it affects the omitted persons, and confirm or alter the previous testacy order as it affects all interested persons as appropriate in the light of the new proofs. In the absence of objection by an omitted or unnotified person, evidence received in the original testacy proceeding constitutes prima facie proof of due execution of a will previously admitted to probate, or of the fact that the decedent left no valid will if the prior proceeding determined this fact.
    The children should talk to an attorney who does probate.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.
  9. #9
    pegmom3 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiogal View Post
    NOT TRUE completely. Intestate succession applies. Hubby was ONE kin but the children are due a portion of the estate as well since they were not the children of the hubby. If the estate was NOT probated there are issues and laws were broken.
    So do I seek an attorney advice on this? Nothing was probated. The two vehicles that were"promised" because of no will, he sold them then told us to come get them and told us,"you're not getting anything". We were denied all our childhood things that were in the house,he donated it ALL to the Salvation Army..once again in spite of us. He was always jealous of us. He did what he thought legally was his right. And also my grandmother(her mother) bought the urn that her ashes are in, cost over $2000. I just want to know legally if it's worth trying to pursue,to get her buried or anything else I mentioned.
  10. #10
    Proserpina is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Working with Chloe O'Brian
    Posts
    39,284
    I can see Stepdad ending this very quickly if it's pursued in court:

    "I'm sorry - I scattered her ashes at X place, per her dying wish expressed to me privately".


    End of story.
  11. #11
    pegmom3 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohiogal View Post
    Husband is NOT the only next of kin. The bolded is what applies in this situation.



    Also:


    and


    The children should talk to an attorney who does probate.
    The fact that it has almost been 5 yrs, does that affect our chances of being able to do anything? The only reason we have not done anything is because he will not talk to us or contact us or anything of the sort. We only did not do anything because we are not greedy people and originally were only interested in her ashes being taken care of the way she asked,but the way he has done things,and the way our mother raised us was not to just lye down and take it. If we have any chance please let me know. Also the vehicles that were to be ours, well one was sold the other was given to his son-in-law. So really I'd like to know if would all just be settled with money? And I guess bottom line like you said was for us to contact someone that deals with probate? Thank you in advance I was not seeking opinions about needing to deal with anger or see a counselor..just the legal aspect is what I need info on.
  12. #12
    Silverplum is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO
    Posts
    25,566
    Quote Originally Posted by pegmom3 View Post
    The fact that it has almost been 5 yrs, does that affect our chances of being able to do anything? The only reason we have not done anything is because he will not talk to us or contact us or anything of the sort. We only did not do anything because we are not greedy people and originally were only interested in her ashes being taken care of the way she asked,but the way he has done things,and the way our mother raised us was not to just lye down and take it. If we have any chance please let me know. Also the vehicles that were to be ours, well one was sold the other was given to his son-in-law. So really I'd like to know if would all just be settled with money? And I guess bottom line like you said was for us to contact someone that deals with probate? Thank you in advance I was not seeking opinions about needing to deal with anger or see a counselor..just the legal aspect is what I need info on.
    Huh -- I thought you were quite upset.

    Live and learn.
  13. #13
    pegmom3 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverplum View Post
    Huh -- I thought you were quite upset.

    Live and learn.
    Like I said..not asking for opinions about my personal self..legal advice about what direction I should head in LEGALLY speaking,you know, like you have grounds to take him to court? That is what I am asking. Thank you for pointing out something I already knew,but is useless in this matter. Mostly disgust is my issue, and why let someone do wrong if you can do something about it. That is my concern. A family member is a family member even after death,that doesn't change,if I have a chance to right the wrong he has done, then believe I will. This where you all come in with the legal advice. And thank you all in advance
  14. #14
    Proserpina is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Working with Chloe O'Brian
    Posts
    39,284
    Quote Originally Posted by pegmom3 View Post
    Like I said..not asking for opinions about my personal self..legal advice about what direction I should head in LEGALLY speaking,you know, like you have grounds to take him to court? That is what I am asking. Thank you for pointing out something I already knew,but is useless in this matter. Mostly disgust is my issue, and why let someone do wrong if you can do something about it. That is my concern. A family member is a family member even after death,that doesn't change,if I have a chance to right the wrong he has done, then believe I will. This where you all come in with the legal advice. And thank you all in advance



    This is what I'm trying to point out to you:

    Stepdad has the ashes currently.

    Even IF you can take this to court - what do you think will happen?

    Stepdad can very easily lie and say the ashes have been scattered. He won't be penalized for that other than at best a stern talking-to from the Judge.

    It's not as if the Sheriff is going to search all of Stepdad's premises in search for the ashes.

    Is this REALLY a hill you wish to die on? Because if it were me, I'd be seriously considering if it's worth the financial and emotional drain.
  15. #15
    BL
    BL is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    In the good old US of A
    Posts
    19,252
    If it's any comfort to you , my mother wished her boyfriend buried next to her in my family plot where my father's ashes were interred.

    I objected .

    My deceased sister sold belongings of the estate and kept proceeds before she passed.She is also interred there .

    Some members of my family " didn't like " my decisions .

    It's over with and done with . Move on .

    As you stated ,step dad could dump the ashes in a bag .As another said he could "say" he scattered them.

    For now you know where the remains are .When step Dad passes ,perhaps then the remains will pass to family .

    Legally ? I have no idea .

Similar Threads

  1. Daughter upholding mothers wishes
    By confusedxyz in forum Probate and Personal Representatives
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-05-2007, 07:49 PM
  2. Daughter upholding mothers wishes
    By confusedxyz in forum Probate and Personal Representatives
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-05-2007, 07:41 PM
  3. deceased mothers ashes
    By wellslee in forum Marriage, Domestic Partnerships and Other Family Law Matters
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-17-2002, 07:48 AM
  4. mothers ashes, who has the rights to them?
    By swtleilani in forum Marriage, Domestic Partnerships and Other Family Law Matters
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-30-2002, 01:03 AM
  5. want my mothers ashes
    By mis12976 in forum Small Claims Courts
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-14-2001, 11:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

© 1995-2012 Advice Company, All Rights Reserved

FreeAdvice® has been providing millions of consumers with outstanding advice, free, since 1995. While not a substitute for personal advice from a licensed professional, it is available AS IS, subject to our Disclaimer and Terms & Conditions Of Use.