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Suing Ex-girlfriend for possession of car(~$2,500)

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brandontx

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TEXAS

Before I start, I'd like to thank everyone in advance for their time.

In April of 2011 my Ex-Girlfriend(at the time as well, Mother of my child) was moving into a new Apartment. She had previously been living with a friend so she had no furniture. I had just moved into my mother's house(With my son) since I had just my job, so I agreed to let her borrow my furniture for her living room since she had nothing. It included two leather couches and my entertainment center which included the center itself, a 32 inch flat screen TV, high definition tuner, and Sony Blu-Ray player.

In September of 2011 she was buying a new car and asked me to come along since she knew nothing about cars. The salesman offered her $500 for her used car(1999 Toyota, Corolla). While we were talking she agreed to let me have her used car in exchange for the furniture. From that time until now I have driven the car as my main source of transportation for myself and my son. I have maintained insurance on the vehicle, paid inspection fees, maintenance and repair bills on the vehicle since then.

In March of 2011 on a road trip I went through several toll roads totaling roughly $35 dollars. I've paid $20 of the bills, however a few more bills came in and was not aware they totaled so high. Also, we never got around to transferring the registration of the car. She did offer, but for some reason or another we never simply never got around to it. So she did pay a $60 registration fee in April of 2012.

Recently we've been fighting more than usual about who pays what for our son. (He lives with me full time, visits her every other weekend). Whatever the reason, she has recently demanded I return the car to her and she'll return the furniture since she no longer needs it(Her boyfriend recently moved in). She has threatened to report the car stolen since it is in her name. I called the authorities and they told me if it is reported stolen I could face criminal charges for driving the vehicle. I have no choice but to return the vehicle at this time.

My question is can I sue her for the car? Since we never transferred the title am I out of options? I know it was incredibly stupid, but I never though it would come to this. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks again in advance.
 


BL

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TEXAS

Before I start, I'd like to thank everyone in advance for their time.

In April of 2011 my Ex-Girlfriend(at the time as well, Mother of my child) was moving into a new Apartment. She had previously been living with a friend so she had no furniture. I had just moved into my mother's house(With my son) since I had just my job, so I agreed to let her borrow my furniture for her living room since she had nothing. It included two leather couches and my entertainment center which included the center itself, a 32 inch flat screen TV, high definition tuner, and Sony Blu-Ray player.

In September of 2011 she was buying a new car and asked me to come along since she knew nothing about cars. The salesman offered her $500 for her used car(1999 Toyota, Corolla). While we were talking she agreed to let me have her used car in exchange for the furniture. From that time until now I have driven the car as my main source of transportation for myself and my son. I have maintained insurance on the vehicle, paid inspection fees, maintenance and repair bills on the vehicle since then.

In March of 2011 on a road trip I went through several toll roads totaling roughly $35 dollars. I've paid $20 of the bills, however a few more bills came in and was not aware they totaled so high. Also, we never got around to transferring the registration of the car. She did offer, but for some reason or another we never simply never got around to it. So she did pay a $60 registration fee in April of 2012.

Recently we've been fighting more than usual about who pays what for our son. (He lives with me full time, visits her every other weekend). Whatever the reason, she has recently demanded I return the car to her and she'll return the furniture since she no longer needs it(Her boyfriend recently moved in). She has threatened to report the car stolen since it is in her name. I called the authorities and they told me if it is reported stolen I could face criminal charges for driving the vehicle. I have no choice but to return the vehicle at this time.

My question is can I sue her for the car? Since we never transferred the title am I out of options? I know it was incredibly stupid, but I never though it would come to this. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks again in advance.
Not without the car for furniture in writing .

She has demanded the autos return ,and if you do not return it you can be charged criminally.

Set up a date and time to retrieve your furniture.

If she refuses to let you have your furniture sue for it's used value when she came into use of it.
 
Last edited:

latigo

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TEXAS

Before I start, I'd like to thank everyone in advance for their time.

In April of 2011 my Ex-Girlfriend(at the time as well, Mother of my child) was moving into a new Apartment. She had previously been living with a friend so she had no furniture. I had just moved into my mother's house(With my son) since I had just my job, so I agreed to let her borrow my furniture for her living room since she had nothing. It included two leather couches and my entertainment center which included the center itself, a 32 inch flat screen TV, high definition tuner, and Sony Blu-Ray player.

In September of 2011 she was buying a new car and asked me to come along since she knew nothing about cars. The salesman offered her $500 for her used car(1999 Toyota, Corolla). While we were talking she agreed to let me have her used car in exchange for the furniture. From that time until now I have driven the car as my main source of transportation for myself and my son. I have maintained insurance on the vehicle, paid inspection fees, maintenance and repair bills on the vehicle since then.

In March of 2011 on a road trip I went through several toll roads totaling roughly $35 dollars. I've paid $20 of the bills, however a few more bills came in and was not aware they totaled so high. Also, we never got around to transferring the registration of the car. She did offer, but for some reason or another we never simply never got around to it. So she did pay a $60 registration fee in April of 2012.

Recently we've been fighting more than usual about who pays what for our son. (He lives with me full time, visits her every other weekend). Whatever the reason, she has recently demanded I return the car to her and she'll return the furniture since she no longer needs it(Her boyfriend recently moved in). She has threatened to report the car stolen since it is in her name. I called the authorities and they told me if it is reported stolen I could face criminal charges for driving the vehicle. I have no choice but to return the vehicle at this time.

My question is can I sue her for the car? Since we never transferred the title am I out of options? I know it was incredibly stupid, but I never though it would come to this. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks again in advance.
Just curious, but how did you manage to insure the vehicle when it was titled in her sole name? Are you the named insured on the policy, or is she?

Did you think to ask the stupid cop that if he is so certain that you could be found guilty of stealing her car and that you must return the vehicle, why she wouldn’t suffer the same criminal consequences for “stealing” your furniture?

___________

Rather than “can I sue her for the car”, I think what you want to know is do you have legal grounds to “sue” her for the car with some reasonable expectancy of success. And the answer to that is yes. When swapping personal property ownership in the traded goods pass respectively when the swap is agreed upon.

However, since it is an item of personal property the title or ownership thereof which can only be legally established through the records of the state’s DMV and she has the pink slip and you don’t, such a lawsuit would be somewhat complicated.

Meaning your complaint would need to be framed as one for specific performance in which you would be seeking a decree from the court confirming the trade and ordering her to endorse the title over and physically deliver the document to you.

And maybe this could be done in Texas small claims and maybe it couldn’t. I would say no, but you’ll need to ask a Texas lawyer familiar with applciable court rules.

Also, considering her obstinacy, even if so ordered she might balk and/or conveniently “lose” the pink slip sending you back and forth in court for months on end.

And who is going to be entitled to the use of the vehicle in the interim? Not likely you. Not if she wakes up to the fact that she could be held financially liable for personal injuries and property damage occasioned by your negligent use. The judge might just order that it be placed in storage until the issue is resolved.

Now if you think a $500 “beater” is worth wrestling with these issues, then have at it.

___________________

You didn’t ask this, but I am going to ask you:

How long do you think you can continue this loose arrangement with regard to the custody of this child before you obtain an order of filiation, custody and child support?

Are so naïve as not to realize that without an order establishing (your) paternity that the birth mother could legally take that child and disappear with him?!

Some people just shouldn't be permitted to bring children into the world.
 

brandontx

Junior Member
Just curious, but how did you manage to insure the vehicle when it was titled in her sole name? Are you the named insured on the policy, or is she?

Did you think to ask the stupid cop that if he is so certain that you could be found guilty of stealing her car and that you must return the vehicle, why she wouldn’t suffer the same criminal consequences for “stealing” your furniture?
As for your first question - I called progressive insurance and purchased insurance on the car. I assumed there would have been problems for me to insure myself on the car; however there wasn't. The policy was/is in my name.

You bring up a good point(One I thought of during our conversation), however I could tell when talking from this particular cop he wouldn't be very helpful. He just kept telling me I'd be facing criminal charges for unauthorized use of the vehicle and didn't expand other than to tell me I better give the vehicle back.



Rather than “can I sue her for the car”, I think what you want to know is do you have legal grounds to “sue” her for the car with some reasonable expectancy of success. And the answer to that is yes. When swapping personal property ownership in the traded goods pass respectively when the swap is agreed upon.

However, since it is an item of personal property the title or ownership thereof which can only be legally established through the records of the state’s DMV and she has the pink slip and you don’t, such a lawsuit would be somewhat complicated.

Meaning your complaint would need to be framed as one for specific performance in which you would be seeking a decree from the court confirming the trade and ordering her to endorse the title over and physically deliver the document to you.

And maybe this could be done in Texas small claims and maybe it couldn’t. I would say no, but you’ll need to ask a Texas lawyer familiar with applciable court rules.

Also, considering her obstinacy, even if so ordered she might balk and/or conveniently “lose” the pink slip sending you back and forth in court for months on end.

And who is going to be entitled to the use of the vehicle in the interim? Not likely you. Not if she wakes up to the fact that she could be held financially liable for personal injuries and property damage occasioned by your negligent use. The judge might just order that it be placed in storage until the issue is resolved.

Now if you think a $500 “beater” is worth wrestling with these issues, then have at it.
Thank you for the information, it was very helpful. I did figure the fact that a car has an actual title the DMV manages and my furniture does not would complicate the issue at hand. Keep in mind, the $500 figure is just the amount the salesmen was willing to offer her. He came about that figure when we told him what the car was, and without him looking at it. The Consumer resale Blue Book value of the vehicle depending on condition with its specific mileage ranges from $2,500(poor) to $4,700(Excellent).



You didn’t ask this, but I am going to ask you:

How long do you think you can continue this loose arrangement with regard to the custody of this child before you obtain an order of filiation, custody and child support?

Are so naïve as not to realize that without an order establishing (your) paternity that the birth mother could legally take that child and disappear with him?!

Some people just shouldn't be permitted to bring children into the world.

Not any longer obviously lol. I do realize if she were to just up and take him I would have no legal recourse. To be honest when we had him we were both extremely young and I never thought about things like that. She just recently graduated college and received her nurses license so she just now has the means to take care of him full time if she wants...so it never occurred to me she could(would) do that. Better late than never I suppose.
 

latigo

Senior Member
Not without the car for furniture in writing .

She has demanded the autos return ,and if you do not return it you can be charged criminally.

Set up a date and time to retrieve your furniture.

If she refuses to let you have your furniture sue for it's used value when she came into use of it.
“Not without the car for furniture in writing”?

I beg your pardon BL, but there is nothing in any statute of frauds of any state that would prevent the OP from seeking specific performance of the gal’s agreement to swap the Toyota for the furniture simply because it was not evidence by a writing signed by her.

The OP will of course have the burden of proving by a preponderance of evidence that such an agreement was actually made. But seemingly any counter argument would be weakened by the fact that she made no claim to it for some 21 months.

And no prosecutor in his right mind would agree with you and the cop and press charges for theft under these circumstances! Not him or her.
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
In March of 2011 on a road trip I went through several toll roads totaling roughly $35 dollars. I've paid $20 of the bills, however a few more bills came in and was not aware they totaled so high. Also, we never got around to transferring the registration of the car. She did offer, but for some reason or another we never simply never got around to it. So she did pay a $60 registration fee in April of 2012.
This above shows you broke the law in her car. YOU are supposed to pay the toll on toll roads when you use them -- not when you get around to it. So basically you broke the law several times in order to avoid paying the toll and rang up several fees due to your theft and you expected her to do nothing. That reflects upon her due to the fact that the car is registered to her.
 

BL

Senior Member
“Not without the car for furniture in writing”?

I beg your pardon BL, but there is nothing in any statute of frauds of any state that would prevent the OP from seeking specific performance of the gal’s agreement to swap the Toyota for the furniture simply because it was not evidence by a writing signed by her.

The OP will of course have the burden of proving by a preponderance of evidence that such an agreement was actually made. But seemingly any counter argument would be weakened by the fact that she made no claim to it for some 21 months.

And no prosecutor in his right mind would agree with you and the cop and press charges for theft under these circumstances! Not him or her.
A prosecutor may not prosecute but a Law enforcement Officer could arrest.

There is a difference between an Auto and furniture.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
This is not a stolen vehicle. This is a civil matter and would be treated as such unless the police were incredibly bored.
 

BL

Senior Member
This is not a stolen vehicle. This is a civil matter and would be treated as such unless the police were incredibly bored.
Unauthorized use.

She has valid ownership and has demanded the auto's return.

If he keeps it , it's unauthorized use of a Motor Vehicle.
 

latigo

Senior Member
Unauthorized use.

She has valid ownership and has demanded the auto's return.

If he keeps it , it's unauthorized use of a Motor Vehicle.
Well if your theory is correct, then it should work both ways. Right?

So let’s reverse the roles here. After almost two years of running the wheels off of the now 14 year old Toyota OP decides he wants to return it and take back his furniture.

In order to be consistent with your reasoning she would have to comply irrespective of the condition of the car and irrespective of the fact that a trade was agreed upon and consummated. In other words, according to you she never owned the furniture.

And if you are willing to admit that she in fact took ownership of the household stuff in September 2011, then on what legal basis do you contend that she didn’t likewise pass her ownership in the Toyota?

Your argument that personal property law and those that apply to contracts vary in the transfer of ownership of a chattel when the item involved happens to be a “motor vehicle” is not legally sound. True, as far as the state is concerned that ownership can only be supported by the records of DMV, but that doesn’t prevent a buyer from seeking specific performance of an agreement to sell such a vehicle. Example:

In l983 GM announced the future introduction of its 4th generation C-4 Chevrolet Corvettes. Prior to the Corvettes had been selling for about $10K.

A gentleman in Spokane WA placed a confirmed order for the new model with a local Chevy dealership at a price in the $10K range. In the interim, the new models didn’t reach full production until l984, GM jacked up the price several fold.

When the cars arrived at the dealership and the buyer asked for delivery of his vehicle, the dealership refused unless the agreed price was increased.

A good attorney friend of mine, M. Hemovich, representing the buyer filed against the dealership for specific performance and won the lawsuit. And the only “furniture” involved was the bucket seats!
 

BL

Senior Member
Post #1.
I called the authorities and they told me if it is reported stolen I could face criminal charges for driving the vehicle. I have no choice but to return the vehicle at this time.
If it was reported stolen , she could face charges for filing a false instrument, as it wasn't stolen.

Post #6
I could tell when talking from this particular cop he wouldn't be very helpful. He just kept telling me I'd be facing criminal charges for unauthorized use of the vehicle and didn't expand other than to tell me I better give the vehicle back.
Perhaps. I wouldn't advise the poster to take the chance keeping the auto and a chance of being thrown in clink and having to post bail until a court decided, or an attorney taking care of it.

As for the rest , authorities treat vehicles different from personal belonging .

Also small claims are usually for monetary awards.

I realize it's been many months both have been exchanged.

We tell folks with auto issues like this ,think of the auto as a loan ,and return it.

We also tell folks to sue for personal belongings that are kept.
 

brandontx

Junior Member
I beg your pardon BL, but there is nothing in any statute of frauds of any state that would prevent the OP from seeking specific performance of the gal’s agreement to swap the Toyota for the furniture simply because it was not evidence by a writing signed by her.

The OP will of course have the burden of proving by a preponderance of evidence that such an agreement was actually made
. But seemingly any counter argument would be weakened by the fact that she made no claim to it for some 21 months.

And no prosecutor in his right mind would agree with you and the cop and press charges for theft under these circumstances! Not him or her.
This is an excerpt from an email I received on 5/28/2013 from my ex-gf regarding the car and the above mentioned toll road bill:

"If this total $17.41 isn't paid to me by Friday morning at 8:00am, I will be forced to take the car away and we wont end up putting it in your name."

Two things:
-Do you think this would this suffice as it shows she had intention of putting the vehicle in my name?
-I ended up paying her for the toll bill before her "deadline" and she still ended up calling the cops.
 

latigo

Senior Member
This is an excerpt from an email I received on 5/28/2013 from my ex-gf regarding the car and the above mentioned toll road bill:

"If this total $17.41 isn't paid to me by Friday morning at 8:00am, I will be forced to take the car away and we wont end up putting it in your name."

Two things:
-Do you think this would this suffice as it shows she had intention of putting the vehicle in my name?
-I ended up paying her for the toll bill before her "deadline" and she still ended up calling the cops.
It certainly isn't consistent with claim of ownership on her part. But would you know how to authenticate and thus be permitted to introduce the e-mail missive in a court of law? Or how to even plead a case for specific performance of contract and in the proper venue?

I very much doubt it.

But is this 14-year old car really worth putting up with being constantly annoyed and hassled by this “p.o.s” and lousy excuse for a mother?

Nor do I think that it is prudent of you to be driving a vehicle for which you cannot produce a valid DMV pink slip. Or whatever is the vernacular expression in Texas. (Maybe they just "brand" cars down there. I don't know.)
___________________

What I would definitely do in your case is to shove that e-mail in the face of the imbecile dressed as a police officer that thinks you need to be fitted for an orange jumpsuit.

Fini and good luck.
 

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