won eBay auction, have not paid - seller threatens lawsuit

[Ges34]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Hello,

I bid on an ebay vehicle, only to notice 7 hours before the auction was over, that an account with 0 feedback was increasing the price. The seller had mentioned in the auction he was re-listing the vehicle as a result of a non-paying bidder. My guess is HE was the winning bidder in the previous auction, and had simply not paid. That's when I suspected the seller of "Shill Bidding," and I tried to get out of the auction... not by accusing the seller of fraud (Shill Bidding) but by making an excuse that I was having second thoughts on the vehicle, since it would ultimately be the seller in control of whether I can redact my bid.

He refused to remove my bid, and ultimately, this 0-feedback account raised the price to my maximum bid: 2100$. I told the seller I would not pay for the vehicle, and since, he has emailed me demanding I pay him, and now he's threatening a small claims lawsuit of 2100$ + lawyer fees. I reported him for Shill Bidding, and received no response... my guess is they did not find enough evidence.

I would not like to do business with this man, especially after his threats. Can ebay simply refund his listing fees? Can't he just have a second chance offer? If I get sued, shouldn't it be only for the listing fees instead of the entire auction? Please help, eBay is currently re-investigating my Shill Bidding report.

 

[justalayman]

have you ever bothered to read the eBay site? It clearly states by bidding on an item you are entering into a binding contract. That means, if upheld, the seller can sue to force you to perform (buy the car).

If you saw a problem with the auction, why did you not remove your auto bid? Once the bid was past you, you would have been home free.

Can ebay simply refund his listing fees?

sure but why would they? They had nothing to do with what happened. Why should they lose out on their money?

Can't he just have a second chance offer?

Sure but he doesn't have to.

If I get sued, shouldn't it be only for the listing fees instead of the entire auction?

No, it should be for performance of the contract.

The one part that confuses me is you claim the seller "relisted" the auction due to a non-paying buyer bidding on the car. Then you state the 0 feedback account bid so that your automatic bid would max out.

Please explain a bit.

 

[Ges34]

As I was bidding, I noticed a suspicious account (0-feedback) making bids, thus increasing the price I had to pay if I won. (I had set a maximum bid of 2100$)

The seller mentioned in the auction I was bidding on, he was re-listing the item from a previous auction where there was a non-paying bidder. My guess is that in his first auction, he was using a fake account, 0-feedback, to bid on the car in order to increase the price. He accidentally (or purposely as the price may not have been as high as he wanted to) outbid the highest bidder in the previous auction, and was stuck with the item... thus a "non-paying" bidder, who would have been himself. He then re-listed the item (the auction I was bidding on), and tried to raise the price by bidding with his fake account... and after coming to this suspicion, I wanted OUT. I emailed the seller to remove my bid, he told ME to figure out how...

 

[BL]

Your max bid was $2100.00 .

You should never do that .

I have bid on items from ebay with account names such as ***BG*** outbidding me .

I don't bid when names come up like that anymore .

This brings up a red flag , and I quit bidding when the amount reaches what I'm willing to pay .

You prove , he or his buddies , set the account up like they did , otherwise pay .

You agreed to the max .

 

[Ges34]

If I don't pay, don't show up to court. Will they garnish my wages? Or just send to a collection agency, and give me bad credit?

 

[BL]

Why won't you pay the Max that you were willing to pay ?

If the go to court against you , yes they could take steps to collect.

They will have to prove their actual damages .

 

[justalayman]

are both you and the seller in the same state?


Unless you can come up with some proof of your allegations, you are fighting a losing battle. If you have some proof of the fraud, you may be able to fight the claim based upon the actions.


So, what solid proof do you have of your suspicions and allegations?

 

[tranquility]

Basic contrat theory allows a person to remove an offer before it is accepted without penalty. A week of law school is spent doing what if's on offer/acceptance. What if the offer is faxed to the offeree, but the offeree calls on the telephone but does not reach the offeror and leaves a message while the offeror, before listening to the message mails a letter ending the offer--kind of thing. I think a clear communication to the seller before the bid was accepted is acceptable to remove the offer from the table. Having an amount the bid can go up to is removed as well.

He will argue you did not end the offer in a reasonable manner according to the rules of the auction (E-bay). I don't know what those are, but by basic contract/auction law, your offer could not be accepted because it lapsed by notification.

 

[justalayman]

I see this a bit differently.

I agree with the offer and withdrawal of the offer BUT timing would be critical and I am not sure the timing, as I read this thread, would allow for a withdrawal of the offer.

If OP contacted the seller to withdraw the offer, fine but if OP allowed the auction on eBay to continue to raise his bid, the withdrawal would then become moot as the new offer would not be countered by the previous withdrawal.

If OP did not attempt to withdraw the offer until the auction is closed, it is irrelevant and has no force since the terms of the auction are defined at the closing of the auction.

So, to make an effective action, OP would have had to stop all bidding and contact the seller, prior to the close of the auction and withdraw any offer outstanding.

 

[Indiana Filer]

Your max bid was $2100.00 .

You should never do that .
I have bid on items from ebay with account names such as ***BG*** outbidding me .
I don't bid when names come up like that anymore .
This brings up a red flag , and I quit bidding when the amount reaches what I'm willing to pay.
You prove , he or his buddies , set the account up like they did , otherwise pay .
You agreed to the max .

Just FYI, Ebay is now showing bidders' names with asterisks replacing part of the username in an effort to protect the privacy of the users.

My username does not have any asterisks in it, but it shows that it does when I'm bidding on an auction. Once the auction is over, the actual username shows.

 

[Ges34]

I see this a bit differently.

I agree with the offer and withdrawal of the offer BUT timing would be critical and I am not sure the timing, as I read this thread, would allow for a withdrawal of the offer.

If OP contacted the seller to withdraw the offer, fine but if OP allowed the auction on eBay to continue to raise his bid, the withdrawal would then become moot as the new offer would not be countered by the previous withdrawal.

If OP did not attempt to withdraw the offer until the auction is closed, it is irrelevant and has no force since the terms of the auction are defined at the closing of the auction.

So, to make an effective action, OP would have had to stop all bidding and contact the seller, prior to the close of the auction and withdraw any offer outstanding.

Hi,

I tried to remove my bid 6-7 hours before the auction closed, however, eBay's policy states this must be done 12 hours before the auction is over... or else it's up to the seller's discretion. This is where my problem lies, as the seller didn't know how to remove my bid, and I missed his reply where he was demanding it was up to me to figure out how. By the time I read this, the auction was over. Now I'm F-ed.

 

[justalayman]

I am not familiar with eBay (and due to threads like this most likely never will be) but based upon you most recent post, you may fall back into the reasoning tranquility presented.

If you attempted to rescind the bid and due to technicalities within the website were unable to, you may be able to argue you did rescind the bidding (via your converstation) and attempted to disable your automatic bidding on the website but due to their rules were unable to.

eBays actions may not be able to be used to argue the point if you were aware of their rules or can be proven you should have reasonably been able to access those rules. If you had to acknoledge the rules, it gets even tougher to argue this.

The other problem I see is the guy that is threatening to sue you is your only source of evidence you did rescind your offer. What would make him admit any of this happened as you say it did?

Talk about between a rock and a hard place.

I believe your best defense is your suspicions of a fraudulent intent on the sellers part to artificially increase the bid. It would require a lot of work to prove and may not be provable but the situation does lend an air of dishonesty to the situation. Maybe a judge would see it as well.

you never answered my question about the resident states of each of you.

 

[BL]

Can I retract or cancel my bid?

Also , you will find answers by clicking HELP on ebay's site .

 

[Ges34]

We're both in California. I still have the email exchanges we've had, including where he said he'd "serve me court papers" if I didn't have his money the following day. I've offered to pay his listing fees, and have apologized for wasting his time. I always figured the worst that could happen would be "negative feedback"...not have someone force you to buy an item you had second thoughts on. Oh well, at least I learned a lesson: Stick to craigslist. If all hope fails, I'll just try to re-sell the car.