I got SSD. Now I realize I don't WANT it.

[DukeLeto]

I asked this board about filing for SSD in spite of the fact that I was receiving PA Unemployment benefits, and the general consensus was that it was no problem.

Since my problem was Bipolar Disorder/Asperger Syndrome, the likelihood that it would ever be approved seemed remote. Lo and behold, it gets approved without appeal. OK, great!

Not so great. The "Benefit" is $1200 a month. Since my doctors are out of network and I need to have insurance to cover my medications, I basically am spending $1000 a month of ~$2250 a month the state of PA is giving me on medical expenses which I can't tighten my belt on.

Problem right there. It'd be slightly less problematic if I could keep the $6000 in back benefits they're talking about giving me, but I have a sneaking suspicion PA is going to demand all of it to offset the monies they've paid out in unemployment. In fact, in my paranoia of paranoias, PA is going to demand back all of the money it paid out in UC over the period I should have been on disability. (~$12,000)

Worse, even though my therapist (dunno about the psychiatrist) thinks I need to get healthy by jumping back into the workforce, I'm likely to be penalized if I actually do manage to find a job. (In a world that was tailored to my needs, the SSD would stay in force without being paid out for 6 months to a year in case I flame out again, but my case is really not what they were thinking of when SSD was designed.)

So for all that, even though I have less than 16 weeks of EUC unemployment left, I'm actually inclined to say screw it and tell SSA "never mind, you should not have been involved in the first place".

So my questions are:

1) Is there any way to get more out of them? (Headhunters don't bat an eye at my salary demand of 75k-80k as a programmer, and it stands to reason that if I get healthy and functional like I was in the mid 2000s, I'll pay back into the system a fair amount over its lifetime...)

2) If not, is there any way to withdraw the application tactfully now that it has been approved?

3) Anybody got ANY other ideas?

 

[Onderzoek]

I asked this board about filing for SSD in spite of the fact that I was receiving PA Unemployment benefits, and the general consensus was that it was no problem.

Since my problem was Bipolar Disorder/Asperger Syndrome, the likelihood that it would ever be approved seemed remote. Lo and behold, it gets approved without appeal. OK, great!

Not so great. The "Benefit" is $1200 a month. Since my doctors are out of network and I need to have insurance to cover my medications, I basically am spending $1000 a month of ~$2250 a month the state of PA is giving me on medical expenses which I can't tighten my belt on.

Problem right there. It'd be slightly less problematic if I could keep the $6000 in back benefits they're talking about giving me, but I have a sneaking suspicion PA is going to demand all of it to offset the monies they've paid out in unemployment. In fact, in my paranoia of paranoias, PA is going to demand back all of the money it paid out in UC over the period I should have been on disability. (~$12,000)

Worse, even though my therapist (dunno about the psychiatrist) thinks I need to get healthy by jumping back into the workforce, I'm likely to be penalized if I actually do manage to find a job. (In a world that was tailored to my needs, the SSD would stay in force without being paid out for 6 months to a year in case I flame out again, but my case is really not what they were thinking of when SSD was designed.)

So for all that, even though I have less than 16 weeks of EUC unemployment left, I'm actually inclined to say screw it and tell SSA "never mind, you should not have been involved in the first place".

So my questions are:

1) Is there any way to get more out of them? (Headhunters don't bat an eye at my salary demand of 75k-80k as a programmer, and it stands to reason that if I get healthy and functional like I was in the mid 2000s, I'll pay back into the system a fair amount over its lifetime...)

2) If not, is there any way to withdraw the application tactfully now that it has been approved?

3) Anybody got ANY other ideas?

Feel free to contact SSA, tell them you would like to withdraw your claim, sign the appropriate form (SSA-521) and pay back all the money you received and go get that job that will pay you 75K a year.

No, you can't negotiate a better payment than you would get than the one set by law.

7/18/12 This is America. You have the right to ignore good advice and make as many foolish decisions (in the collective opinion of this board) that you want to make as along as a court has not yet decided that you are a danger to yourself or others and are gravely disabled.

 

[TheGeekess]

I asked this board about filing for SSD in spite of the fact that I was receiving PA Unemployment benefits, and the general consensus was that it was no problem.

Since my problem was Bipolar Disorder/Asperger Syndrome, the likelihood that it would ever be approved seemed remote. Lo and behold, it gets approved without appeal. OK, great!

Not so great. The "Benefit" is $1200 a month. Since my doctors are out of network and I need to have insurance to cover my medications, I basically am spending $1000 a month of ~$2250 a month the state of PA is giving me on medical expenses which I can't tighten my belt on.

Problem right there. It'd be slightly less problematic if I could keep the $6000 in back benefits they're talking about giving me, but I have a sneaking suspicion PA is going to demand all of it to offset the monies they've paid out in unemployment. In fact, in my paranoia of paranoias, PA is going to demand back all of the money it paid out in UC over the period I should have been on disability. (~$12,000)

Worse, even though my therapist (dunno about the psychiatrist) thinks I need to get healthy by jumping back into the workforce, I'm likely to be penalized if I actually do manage to find a job. (In a world that was tailored to my needs, the SSD would stay in force without being paid out for 6 months to a year in case I flame out again, but my case is really not what they were thinking of when SSD was designed.)

So for all that, even though I have less than 16 weeks of EUC unemployment left, I'm actually inclined to say screw it and tell SSA "never mind, you should not have been involved in the first place".

So my questions are:

1) Is there any way to get more out of them? (Headhunters don't bat an eye at my salary demand of 75k-80k as a programmer, and it stands to reason that if I get healthy and functional like I was in the mid 2000s, I'll pay back into the system a fair amount over its lifetime...)

2) If not, is there any way to withdraw the application tactfully now that it has been approved?

3) Anybody got ANY other ideas?

After you start receiving disability benefits, you may want to try working again. There are special rules called “work incentives” that can help you keep your cash benefits and Medicare while you test your ability to work. For more information about the ways we can help you return to work, ask for Working While Disabled—How We Can Help (Publication No. 05-10095). More detailed information about work incentives can be found in our Red Book (Publication No. 64-030). Also visit The Work Site.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10095.html
http://www.ssa.gov/work

 

[ecmst12]

I would also look to switching to doctors that are in-network. Your current doctors should help you make the switch.

 

[xylene]

3) Anybody got ANY other ideas?

Why are you worrying about "sneaking suspicions" when nothing has happened?

You need to consider the reality of your situation, take a chill, and stop worrying about what you did nearly a decade ago.

Don't plan on reentering the workforce until 2014 or later - you did NOT get disability by ACCIDENT.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO SPEND 40% of your payment on doctors - that is STUPID.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Soooooo, What you are saying is you lied by saying you were disabled and unable to work, to get SSD and now you have "buyers remorse" and want to have experienced a miraculous healing that allows you into the job market, as soon as you find another job.

I would say you are a victim of "watch out what you wish for, you might get it". I suggest you call up the SSA and tell them to take their free money and shove it, cause real men work through the pain.

 

[DukeLeto]

The sequence of events goes something like this:

I get fired from yet another job for disruptive behavior (mostly attendance) caused by my bipolar disorder.

Somehow this is not listed as a termination with cause and I start collecting UC from PA.

I continue looking for another job while collecting UC, but my parents, who I am borrowing an apartment from (the rent is being put on an account), bent my arm in March to apply for SSD, which I dutifully did in the knowledge that it made no difference because I obviously didn't deserve disability and only an idiot would approve me.

Well much to my surprise, indeed they did approve it, but as noted the amount simply isn't enough.

I'm using out-of-network specialists for my bipolar disorder/asperger's treatment because I was using in-network resources for years and nothing they did or prescribed ever helped.

Clearly I need special care to get me functional but that care can work just as well with me working as it will with me sitting around the damned house all day, which is what I'm doing on UC and it's ALREADY driving me crazy.

Here's the nightmare scenario:

PA finds out SSA has decided I'm unable to work and demands back EVERYTHING they've given me since the disability began, about $25k. (Which I no longer have and the back SSD will only be about $6-7k.) I already declared bankruptcy last year so that stays on the books after they take all the SSD lump sum, leaving ~$19k I owe PA.

In the next few weeks I manage to find a job. The what usually happens happens, after two weeks I start having a total nervous/emotional breakdown and am given the sack after six-eight weeks on the job. But the damage is done. Having gotten the job proves to SSA that I am able to work, and they reverse their disbursal of benefits, demanding back all that they've disbursed. They do not put me back on disability when I disintegrate, even though that's exactly the reason they granted disability. This time, PA judges my termination to be with cause and doesn't grant me benefits. Even if they do, they just accept my claims and don't pay anything until the ~19k is paid back. And if I'm not homeless, I AM starving.

See my ambivalence? If I'm going to wind up on the street I'd rather not be in any more debt...

 

[xylene]

The Whole Tooth

Duke Leto

I know a lot about about where you are coming from.

You are inventing worries.

Focus on healing.

Adjust your care so it is less costly. There is no magic to bipolar care that an in-network doctor can't handle it.

You are on disability to recover. If you need nutrition help go to a food pantry and to the free meals charities have for breakfast lunch and dinner basically every day. Find a support group.

You don't have a legal problem. But if you want to cause yourself one... that I don't understand.

 

[commentator]

You didn't ask me about drawing unemployment insurance on the boards here that I can remember. what I would have told you is that yes, while you are trying to draw social security disability, you can sign up on unemployment and you will be eligible for unemployment benefits up until the time that you are judged to be eligible for disability. You cannot get both at the same time, as the two programs are mutually exclusive. If you are too disabled to work you are not eligible for unemployment insurance. BUt the situation you describe is remarkably common, and is not a big deal.

If you get your approval for social security disability in October and they back pay you since the first of the year, then yes, you will be charged with an overpaymetn and technically you'll have to pay back the unemployment benefits you received from the first of the year. But you would be a totally dumb son of a gun to reject your social security disability benefits because of this situation. Because first of all, the chances of your actually having to pay back this overpayment is very small. What they will do is determine you are overpaid, ( a non fraud overpayment) and you depending on the state you are in, you will either ask for a waiver or tell them that because of your financial situation, you will not be able to begin paying the money back right now. You're unemployed, and you're disabled, and you're not actually exactly rolling in the money! They sort of know that and have dealt with this situation a thousand times before. This year.

AND this is huge. Unemployment insurance benefits are finite, yours are, as you say, getting ready to end. Just what the heck do you think you're going to do when they do end? You certainly cannot ask them for more money based on how bad you need it. Are you about to get another job? If so, then you can certainly stop drawing social security disability when you have worked too much during the year. But unemployment overpayment is NOT a big deal in your situation. Your chances of being forced to pay the money back with penalties, or having to go to jail or something are virtually non existent! If you received unemployment insurance and then are later back paid for disability for a while that you were receiving benefits, that is a non-fraud no fault overpayment. you did not intend to commmit unemployment fraud, so they are not going to be really staunch about making you pay this money back. And in the meantime, if you are not able to work, can't find another job, you desperately need the social security disability.

Social security does not easily approve people. You obviously have some issues. Yes, you are right now quite comfortable with unemployment insurance,but this is not a need based program, nothing personal about it, and you will not be albe to get back on it for a long time, until you had worked again and had base period wages. this probably won't happen for two or three more years of gainful employment. If you can come up with this, more power to you, you didn't really need social security disability. but if the only reason you're wanting to give the money back and tell them to forget it is that you're worried about this overpayment, don't. They know they can't get the money back (or at least not quickly and easily) from someone who was not overpaid due to fraud and is now so seriously disabled that they have been judged unable to work.

If you find another job right away, and then you get fired from it, with cause, and you are not eligible for unemployment, or even if they lay you off, and you WOULD be elibile for unemployment, you are not going to have another claim right now. Like I said, it's not based on need, it's based on having a big substantial amount of wages in the last five or six quarters, and you won't have that again for quite a while. Take the disability, be looking for another job. Even if you get it, you don't have to quit the disability immediately...you may work part time, or you may try it out before you end your claim. But what you are doing right now is deciding very arbitrarily that you'll have this and this and this happen and there is NO WAY you are going to be able to see the future.

If you are out on the street, they'll just try as we do where I work to get you back on disability and wonder why in the sam hill you decided to stop getting it in the first place. It's designed for people who are not working and are having a hard time due to their health issues, mental or physical. Unemployment insurance isn't what you need, and you are not going to have it as option again for a long time if at all.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Want it or not, it sounds like you do in fact qualify. I suggest you stay on SSDI, request forgiveness on the UI or pay it back and find in network providers that will continue the course of treatment you have discovered is helping. With this help, you can possibly obtain employment where you can earn under the monthly SSDI amount to stay qualified. I don't often find people I believe are on the bubble. I believe you are.

 

[csi7]

I am on social security disability, and I was able to keep my unemployment benefits. As commentator says, it is not that big of a deal to work with.

Your medical condition is not stable for working, and with disability payments, it gives you breathing room to recover.

 

[ecmst12]

Did you read the links that TheGeekess posted?

Sounds to me like you have a not-insignificant amount of denial regarding the severity of your condition. It also sounds like your healthcare providers are not as good as you think, if they are pushing you to go back to work when you are not ready.

 

[Onderzoek]

You were approved for Social Security Disability under the assumption that you would not be able to perform Substantial Gainful Activity for 12 months or longer. If you return to work in less than 12 months and demonstrate the ability to perform SGA despite your medical condition, your approval can be reopened to a denial and you will have to repay it all. If you are going to remain on SSDI, you need to be sure to report that you went back to work, if you do. They will find out eventually.

I suggest you take a year or more to heal, to figure out how to not disintegrate on the job and be poor for a year or two. Then return to work after studying the work incentive rules. Best place to start is the Red Book of Work Incentives at socialsecurity.gov. Once you return to work at the amount of money you say you can earn, save as much as possible to sustain you in case you disintegrate again. You will have gotten use to living on a limited amount of income. You have demonstrated that you have a severe problem in the work force. It will not be solved quickly.

I think this is a better solution than homelessness.

You need to think long term.

 

[DukeLeto]

Thank you all for the good advice.

I've mostly come around to the necessity of taking the disability, but I still have some serious misgivings about holding off on my job search until after official first year has past. (The date the disability began was Aug 2011, but the back payments will start from Feb 2011, which date is when the clock starts for when I can start work rehabilitation, Aug 2012 or Feb 2013?) The primary reason for this is that it's already been a year since I had a full time job, (there was a four week stint in April that was intended as a short term contract).

Although my Monster resume for SQL Server programming work draws headhunters like flies, I have to swat most of them away for the following reasons:

1) I can't afford to relocate (especially since I'm borrowing my current living space from my parents on what amounts to an inheritance on installment plan.)
2) I don't want to take a position too far away from my Suburban Philly home, since the dealbreaking problems are generally tardiness/attendance related when I get fired and trying to consistently make it through the interstate to downtown Philadelphia and New Jersey is likely to cause chronic tardiness problems even for normal people.
3) I'm a very good T-SQL developer, but all my web development experience is with ASP Classic/Visual Basic 6 instead of the modern .NET languages, so I'm disqualified from 60-70% of the jobs I should be competing for right there. (I have no CompSci degree, I taught myself Web Development and DB Design on the job at an employer who was willing to let me do so at a ludicrously low salary. After I was fired from that job, ("Resigned over salary dispute" is the official reason for the four month gap in my resume there.) the next one kept me specialized in legacy ASP Classic web pages rather than letting work on new technologies until I was fired, and I have not been able to find anyone willing to hire me on the assumption that I can bone up on .NET based on my ASP Classic work.

ANYWAY, the point is that although I have been getting interviews for the last year and nothing has worked out, when I turned away a headhunter who wanted to place me in New Jersey in April I got a lecture on how if I didn't take something soon my latest period of unemployment was going to become a toxic liability that no employer was going to look past, EEOC or no EEOC.

Between that and changing technology I'm afraid that when I'm ready to re-enter the marketplace in February or later, my current resume will be effectively worthless and I'll have to start from scratch in a new career. And I really can't afford to go back to school because there's no money for it and my previous bankruptcy precludes my getting student loans. (As I said to one headhunter who I discussed my predicament with, "I can't even go to Burger King, they'll look at my resume and tell me they won't even recoup the cost of training me before I go to a better a job...") I guess I can say I've been on disability on my resume, but I kind of need an answer for when someone inevitably asks "what for" because "recurrent insanity" just ain't gonna go over well.

I probably need to discuss this question with some of my previous employers, of all people. (They have no malice against me and actually give positive references, which consistently astonishes me.)

The psychiatrist and the therapist are split on the issue. Psychiatrist says chill out and work on the problems, therapist says the problems need to be faced head on.

 

[ecmst12]

I would suggest you make your resume un-searchable and stop talking to headhunters. You can easily keep up your education while on disability, read books, take classes, play around with stuff for fun. A period of unemployment does not mean career death. You are taking time to get your personal life in order before trying to re-enter the workforce. Getting another job out of fear and then getting fired a few months later is going to look much worse. The headhunter was trying to scare you into working with him, which is a slimy thing to do, and not anything you should be wasting time worrying about.

There are lots of programs in place to help people on disability re-enter the workforce when they are ready - including those that will help you with classes and the like. Plus with your income, you probably qualify for grants anyway.

Any prospective employer is NOT going to ask you why you were on disability, at least not if they have 2 brain cells to rub together. And you don't need to volunteer it. It is frankly none of their business. And I think there are incentives for employers to hire people coming off disability just like for people on unemployment.

And I also think you need to find a different therapist. Facing problems head-on is good, but something as big as going back to work too soon, which could totally screw up your disability claim and so your ability to survive, is just terrible advice. There are other ways to put yourself in a situation to interact with people.