16 year old in very bad situation after unjust ticket (State: OH)

What is the name of your state? Ohio

Copied and pasted from another site. Thank you for any advice you can offer, it is GREATLY appreciated!



I was with picking my friend up from work since he didn't have a ride, along with another friend and his 15 year old brother at shortly after 10:00 PM. I was at a stoplight in my city... it turned green and I accelerated. I just got that new car that's a manual, so I'm still (well was...) enjoying the benefit of faster acceleration. I have a habit of accelerating fast, but not gong more than 5 over the speed limit. Right after I saw flashing lights behind me. I looked down and I was doing 42 in a 35. I pulled over right away. There are two reasons I knew I wasn't over the speed limit by as much as he later said, actually three. First, I was accelerating when I saw his lights right away, I then slowed down right away. Next, I'm driving manual... I didn't leave 2nd gear. Third, like I said, I looked down and was going 42.

The officer comes to my car where I had my license ready for him. He requested my insurance card and proof of ownership, which I couldn't provide since I just got the car Friday. He came back to my car with the ticket, asked for some information, and told me to sign. I very politely said "What am I signing, Sir?".

He then demands I get out of the vehicle. He says "So, you wanna be a tough guy, huh?" I replied, again politely, "No officer, I've just never received a ticket and I didn't know what I was signing" He searches me, cuffs me, and puts me in the back of his cruiser, but now before commenting "I work at (your high school), too, so you better watch out", or something to that effect. He never read me my rights. (Now the police said they only have to do that when they are seeking a statement, not sure...)

He says I am in violation of curfew, at 10:00. The state of OH law says the curfew for 16 year olds driving a motor vehicle is 1:00 AM. I wasn't about to ask him why. After in the police car, he explains that I was speeding and the tires squeeled, but he was going to let me off but not anymore. He basically said that I will learn my lesson with all these fines he's going to write up, and probably lose my license. I sat in the back of the police car as he searched every inch of my car, and as my friends parents came to pick them up.

My car got towed to the impound lot and I got taken to the station and cuffed to a bench.

He wrote me up for three offences:

1. Speeding: 50 in a 35 (by pace, see above) The cop told me "You made me swerve through 3 cars...", so I don't think he could have even told by pace. Especially since I was just accelerating from the light, what does he have to compare my pace to?

2. Seat belt - driver: I always wear my seatbelt. Like I said above, I had my wallet out ready for him. I removed my seatbelt when doing this. He said I should have kept it on, I realize that, but the major concern on my mind at the time was having my license ready for him. This one I deserve out of stupidity. Everyone was wearing their seatbelt.

3. Squeeling of tires: When I accelerated the tires squeeled a very slight amount. I'm still not used to my car. Even on the way back from the impound lot today my tires squeeled once.

"reason for custody" - curfew violation: 10:00

[HomeGuru]

Thanks for writing.

[JETX]

I agree.... a wonderful, inspired, thought-provoking 'read'.
Definitely a page-turner!! Can hardly what for the sequel.... where the officer gives us HIS totally-different 'version' of the facts.

[HomeGuru]

Moral: there are 2 sides to every story.
Immoral: hearing only one side.

Do you guys do this with every thread or was I just lucky? I do'nt care if you don't believe me, but this was the exact way it happened. I was just looking for advice, and this was posted in the right section of the forums.

[JETX]

Simply, you got the responses you did because you didn't ask a SINGLE question. Therefore, we just assumed you were posting for informational purposes.

In any case, your own statements say that you were guilty of the three infractions. What did you want from the forum??

[HomeGuru]

Since you did not ask a question, I will take the liberty of responding with advice. ADVICE: Since you are guilty of at least 3 infractions, hire an attorney.

[abezon]

OK, I assume you want arguments to fight the tickets:

1. Speed Determined by Pace: to determine speed accurately by pace, the officer must maintain a constant distance behind you for a reasonable time. Otherwise, the officer's just guessing as if he were parked & saw you drive by him. The shorter the distance between the sighting & the stop, the better your argument. Do NOT say he's wrong because I was only going 42, not 50. Both are infractions. Point out that you were in 2d gear & your car won't go 50 in 2nd.

2. Seat Belt. Tell the judge you were wearing the belt while driving and unbuckled after the officer pulled you over so you could reach your wallet without delaying the officer. Point out that the officer was not directly behind you (couldn't have been if he had to swerve through 3 cars to catch you) and it was too dark for him to see if you were wearing your seat belt while driving. The reason he says you should have kept it on is so you can prove you were wearing it. You don't have to prove you were wearing the belt; he has to prove you weren't. Obviously, bring along your witness will help. Assuming the witness is not some delinquent the judge will hate on sight.

3. Squealing tires. Blame the clutch. I usually drive with a little extra throttle when I'm driving an unfamiliar clutch, because I'd rather err on the side of racing the engine than killing the car in the middle of an intersection. One looks like an idiot either way, but #2 looks more stupid and creates a traffic hazard until I get the car started again.


Contest all 3 tickets. Don't go for mitigation; that admits guilt.

[JETX]

Go ahead and consider trying the defenses offered by Abezon. Experience says... they won't work.

1) Speed: No one on this post knows exactly how the officer 'clocked' you. Your only mention of the method is your words "by pace". You provided NO support for this claim and didn't even say that the officer indicated that. Guilty.

2) Seat Belt: Again, this is a very common statement made by drivers. Right on up there with, "I had just started out and was putting the belt on.". The law says, you are not allowed to OPERATE a vehicle without the "wearing all of the available elements of a properly adjusted occupant restraining device". Simply, your word against his as to whether he saw you wearing it at the time of 'operation' or not. In that battle, you lose.

3) Squeal tires: You admit to that one.... and no 'excuse' will avoid it. You lose again.

You do have the right to defend yourself against these tickets. But, with the attitude you clearly exhibited to the officer (that escalated this incident), and your know-it-all attitude on this forum..... I predict that all three tickets will 'stick'. But then, we will never know if that happens or not, will we??

I would get an attorney. My son got a couple of tickets and he never went to court with an attorney and each time, he was found guilty and fined. We watched his buddies go for ticket after ticket and all were reduced or dismissed. The difference? They paid for an attorney.

When it made a big difference on whether my son would lose his license (and his job since it required him to drive), he hired an attorney and got it dismissed.

Does it work EVERYTIME? Probably not. But if I were you, I sure wouldn't risk it, because when you lose your license you are talking about HIGH INSURANCE PREMIUUMS. My son is having to drive one junk of a car because he can't afford a new car payment and insurance. You also have to think down the line...and I hope this has wised you up and you think about how you drive in the future.

No one addressed the fact that this guy threatened you! :rolleyes ...I would tell that to my attorney, too.

Good luck:

Thanks for the help everyone!

JETX - The ticket says right on it that he judged my speed by pace.

I will be getting an attorney without a doubt... the only difference would be whether or not he wants to file harassment charges. Like I said, I don't want any money out of this or anything, I just want the traffic ticket better.

The cop called my dad back yesterday and was extremely rude, he said. The cop said "I get 50-60 calls a year from parents saying 'my kids very respectful'...". My dad's reply was if he gets 50-60 calls a year, it's very hard to believe ALL were disrespectful. When you think about it, i wonder how many parents DIDN'T call.

[JETX]

"The ticket says right on it that he judged my speed by pace. "
*** How were we supposed to know that??? Your only prior reference to 'pacing' was in your first post:
"(by pace, see above)" with no 'above'. You then went into some questions about pacing, but had omitted that the ticket included 'speed by pace'. Naturally, we were left to ASSUME this was your opinion.

So, lets look solely at the FACTS from your post:
1) "it turned green and I accelerated. I just got that new car that's a manual, so I'm still (well was...) enjoying the benefit of faster acceleration. I have a habit of accelerating fast , but not gong more than 5 over the speed limit."

2) You then contradicted yourself in the very next sentence, "I looked down and I was doing 42 in a 35."

3) "He requested my insurance card and proof of ownership, which I couldn't provide since I just got the car Friday. "

4) "He says "So, you wanna be a tough guy, huh?" I replied, again politely, "No officer, I've just never received a ticket and I didn't know what I was signing"
*** Do you really expect that this conversation took place EXACTLY as you word it??? I doubt that it did and would bet the 'farm' that the officer has a different version. (Especially if your attitude on this forum indicates anything!).

5) "He says I am in violation of curfew, at 10:00. The state of OH law says the curfew for 16 year olds driving a motor vehicle is 1:00 AM."
*** I assume the curfew you are trying to assert is that provided by the Ohio Graduated Licensing Law which does apply for 16 year olds between 1am and 5am. Are you sure that the location (city, town, county) where you were cited doesn't have a LOCAL curfew of 10pm???

Also, since your post says that you are 16, what 'stage' license do you have?? I assume you are driving under a 'permit', correct?? As such, did you have the REQUIRED "licensed driver age 21 or older while driving"??
For the requirements of this Ohio licensing law, see:
[url]http://www.state.oh.us/odps/division/bmv/2f9.pdf[/url]

6) "he explains that I was speeding and the tires squeeled, but he was going to let me off but not anymore."
*** This shows me that you were (at least in the eyes of the officer) disrespectful and argumentative.... or the situation would not have escalated. And of course, this is contradictory of your stated conversation with him.

7) "When I accelerated the tires squeeled a very slight amount."
*** And the law says ANY amount (even slight) is a violation.

Your own posts admit to guilt to the speed and squealing tires. There may, or may not be, an issue as to the seat belt, but you will lose that battle.

Oakley, you certainly have a right to defend yourself against the tickets you received. But given the facts that YOU presented, I really don't see any defenses that you can offer....either on your own or by hiring an attorney. Simply, you are a 16 year old, on an intermediate or temporary license, who got caught. The sooner you learn that YOU are accountable for your actions, the better off you (and society) will be.

Speed by pacing should be fairly easy to win. It's the least accurate method. If the cop was swerving in and out of traffic that makes it even more inaccurate. I've seen people win on these cases before. The seat belt charge should easily be winnable. There's no way the cop could tell at 10PM if you were wearing the seatbelt while driving. I don't know about the curfew law. If the law is 10:00 then I guess he's got you but 10:00 sounds a bit unreasonable so I"m willing to bet it's later. If it is, then the ticket clearly states 10PM then the judge can't convict you if the law states a later time.

BTW, one case I saw in court where the cop claimed to have judged the speed by pacing the cop said to the defendant "I know he was speeding because it took me 3 blocks to catch up to him".

The judge replied, "If you caught up to him then doesn't that mean you would have been going faster?"

The cop said "I guess maybe"

Judge "Not guilty"

[JETX]

Bundy, your idiotic post is laughable. More of your 'imaginary' cases I see. An officer is allowed to speed to catch a suspect violator.
Sheese!!!