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#1
10-01-2006, 06:11 PM
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22348 ticket off duty cop!!!What is the name of your state? California, Southern in San Bernardino County Hey everyone, I have a problem... See I was driving the other day in my 94 honda civic, its yellow so thats y i think i got caught though. Anyways I was driving on the 30 freeway and its kinda downhill and i wasnt paying attention to my speedo but i got pulled over and the cop said i was doing 120 which is bs i think. I know i was going fast but i dont know about that fast.... Anyways the cop was off duty and said he didnt wanna deal with puttin me in a jail and gave me a ticket for 22348 and put 120 on my ticket, anyways wtf!!! can he do that!?? it was unmarked car, this is bs. Can i argue that my speedometer is off so i didnt know i was going that fast, or can i say that my pedal got stuck so i couldnt slow down? someone help me! i just turned 18 last month, wat will happen to me
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#2
10-01-2006, 06:34 PM
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| You absolutely can argue whatever you'd like, but since you are responsible for keeping your vehicle free of defects, an inaccurate speedometer will not fly. As far as your pedal goes, do you think that if you had caused an accident, you would have also been able ot say that since your pedal was stuck, it wasn't your fault? No. It wasn't too stuck-you were able to STOP when the cop pulled you over, right?
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#3
10-01-2006, 06:51 PM
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| That post almost pegged the Free Advice Lame-O-Meter. I better get it calibrated, I don't want Cepe10 to claim it is out of calibration.
__________________ If you feel my answer is rude, mean, snarky or in anyway not to your liking, I did my job. You don't need to tell me. No private messages, I do not reply to them.
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#4
10-01-2006, 06:54 PM
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It is your responsibility to drive at a safe, reasonable, and lawful speed. The equipment arguments won't fly unless you have certification that they were broken and have since been fixed ... and even then, a judge might still shrug it off and tell you, "Too bad." Excuses are not a defense. If you want to stand a partial chance of beating the rap, hire an attorney. - Carl
__________________ A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant "Make mine a double mocha ... And a croissant!" He Who Kneels Before God Can Stand Before Anyone ....author unknown
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#5
10-01-2006, 08:20 PM
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| wow hire an attourney? thanks man thats the best free legal advice ive EVER heard!  anyways cmon someone please help, something for free!!! i have court soon and i dont know wat will happen. I was thinking of saying this, like the area where it was at was below sea level so there is more gravity so i was gona say that the more gravity caused my foot to have more weight and push the pedal harder without me knowing. and since it was downhill the car was going faster. could i use that for my argument? What do u guys think? the cop said i was reckless driving too but he didnt put that on my ticket, but i dont remember reckless driving, i was just driving normal!
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#6
10-01-2006, 08:25 PM
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#7
10-01-2006, 09:24 PM
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Your options here are: hire an attorney and challenge the citation, fight the citation yourself, plead guilty, or plead guilty and try for traffic school. Yes, he can cite you off duty. So THAT defense is out. Quote:
Quote:
- Carl
__________________ A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant "Make mine a double mocha ... And a croissant!" He Who Kneels Before God Can Stand Before Anyone ....author unknown
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#8
10-01-2006, 10:27 PM
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| Aw c'mon guys. Stop playing with him. He obviously knows about the "secret" to get out of speeding tickets, playing with his head isn't going to help anyone. Lakers, here's what you do. Be sure to follow this to the letter, or else it won't work. Go to court on the date listed on the citation. Be sure to wear a SUIT, SHIRT and TIE. Do not say one word to anyone before they call your case. When the clerk calls your name, step up to the podium/wherever they indicate, and wait. Eventually, they'll ask you something like "how do you plead". Now, here's the "trick": (which, by the way, you CANNOT TELL ANYONE. If you share it, it won't work. So unless you feel like paying full price, keep you lips zipped). Everyone thinks the "secret" is an actual verbal phrase. That's where they get you - it's not. It's a series of signs and gestures that are taught only in law schools, and which would be unrecognizable to anyone who is not a judge. You might want to practice them at home before you go to court, because if you get them wrong, the judge will figure out what you're doing and not dismiss the ticket. Ok, here it is: 1- Point to yourself. 2- Your upraised right hand, in the 5 o'clock position (with palm facing your body), is held just above the right shoulder and is thrown back over it. 3- The 'A' hands are held side by side before the chest, palms facing each other and thumbs pointing forward. In this position the hands move alternately back and forth, toward and away from the body. If no results, repeat it, but no more than twice total. After the second repitition, if the judge is still watching you (he should be as he will have recognized the request for dismissal gesture), you need to complete it by taking your right hand, forming it into a "cup" and gently placing across your midsection, just under your belt buckle, and shaking it in an up-and-down motion four times. That's it. Upon your final shake, the court will automatically dismiss your ticket! Good luck, and remember not to tell anyone about this or else you're going to ruin it for everyone.
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#10
10-01-2006, 10:35 PM
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| I know, I know, we're not supposed to give away the secret. But I truly can tell that this poster was not deliberately breaking the law and was probably drawn into the gravity well that he described, so I don't feel bad about how telling him how to get out of it. I just hope he doesn't abuse his newfound powers. And besides, this is far from my best work. (I believe if you do a search for "pirate" under my old posts, you'll find better ones.)
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#11
10-02-2006, 12:05 AM
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| Posters, also note this thread started by OP. [url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=321898[/url]
__________________ What do we live for if not to make the world less difficult for each other? George Eliot
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#12
10-02-2006, 09:16 AM
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. I think you have made my whole point. LEO's who are too lazy, ignorant, or just don't care can and will make horrific errors when attempting to make a scientific measurment and they should be viewed as such by the courts. The courts struck down the sloppy LEO agencies in the 80's and I can see it happening again really soon... OP in this case - are you for real??? or are you Zigner or one of the other clown's alter identity
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#13
10-02-2006, 09:34 AM
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| Uh ... WHAT scientific measurement are you referring to? And I don't know about your state, but out here the cops do not have to testofy as to how a device works, only that they operated it correctly and as instructed. We don't have to "measure" anything ... unless it is the scene of a collision. - Carl
__________________ A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant "Make mine a double mocha ... And a croissant!" He Who Kneels Before God Can Stand Before Anyone ....author unknown
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#14
10-02-2006, 11:10 AM
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) I agree that LEO who have no direct knowledge of how it works and if it has been calibrated should not be allowed to testify as such.Here you are from the highway safety deskbook by NHTSA which BTW is biased for Law enforcement agencies... http://www.eeel.nist.gov/oles/Publications/DOT%20HS-805%20254_Police_Traffic_Radar.pdf#search='Police%20Traffic%20Radar%20ISSUE%20PAPER' Training: In September 1978, we awarded a contract for development of a model training program for police officers in the use of speed measurement devices. The training program has two elements, one covering radar speed measuring devices and one covering nonradar devices. The overall goal of the training program is to improve the effectiveness of speed enforcement through the proper and efficient use of speed measurement devices. The specific objectives of the radar course are to develop and/or improve the trainee's ability to: • Describe the association between excessive speed and accidents, deaths and injuries and describe the highway safety benefits of effective speed control • Describe the basic principles of radar speed measurement • Acquire and demonstrate basic skills in testing and operating the specific radar instruments • Identify the specific radar instruments used by the trainee's agency and describe the instruments major components and their functions • Identify and describe the laws, court rulings, regulations, policies and procedures affecting radar speed measurement and speed enforcement in general • Acquire and demonstrate basic skills in preparing and presenting records and courtroom testimony relating to radar speed measurement and enforcement The radar training course is designed in a modular format to provide maximum flexibility for the user. It is comprised of eight units, each of which has specific performance objectives. The formal classroom training comprises a block of 24 instruction hours. Upon successful completion of a written exam, the trainee must undergo a minimum of 16 instruction hours of supervised field practice. After completing the course of instruction, the trainee must be able to demonstrate his operational (real world) competency before being certified to take enforcement action based on radar speed evidence. Recertification of all operators should occur within not less than one nor more than three years. Although this course focuses on enforcement and is intended primarily for the police patrol officer, we recommend participation in the training program by traffic adjudication personnel, e.g., judges, administrative hearing officers, prosecutors, etc. Such personnel routinely decide upon the admissibility and weight of radar speed evidence, the strengths and weaknesses of the instruments and the capabilities and limitations of the operators. This type of training will provide adjudication personnel with a good working knowledge of radar speed measurement principles and an understanding of the issues relevant to judicial deliberations. Position: The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration believes that police traffic radar is an effective enforcement tool. The role of police traffic radar in traffic safety enforcement continues to be of critical importance, especially in view of the safety and fuel conservation benefits of the 55 mph speed limit and the requirement that all States must meet uniform national compliance criteria enacted by Congress. Police traffic radar provides a means of increasing enforcement effectiveness and thus enables police administrators to better cope with the scarcity of manpower resources and rapidly increasing fuel costs. Highway safety and law enforcement officials should recognize the fallacy of purchasing radar devices solely on the basis of economy without due regard to their performance capabilities. These officials must also recognize the importance of greatly improved operator training and State-level policy guidance to ensure high quality and more uniform police radar operations throughout a State. Inaction on these issues by State and local highway safety and law enforcement officials may well result in judicial limitations governing the use of police traffic radar. It is essential that each State develop a comprehensive radar speed enforcement program which, as a minimum, embraces equipment standards, operator training, operator certification, and policy/procedural guidance. Accordingly, each State is strongly urged to: • Adopt the forthcoming NBS/NHTSA radar speed measuring device performance standards and require police agencies to purchase devices meeting those standards • Develop policy guidelines to ensure that radar speed measuring devices receive proper care and upkeep and establish clear procedures for programed maintenance, testing, and calibration • Ensure that adequate maintenance and calibration record systems (suitable for introduction as evidence in court) are developed and maintained by each agency using radar speed measuring devices • Adopt the NHTSA radar operator training program or its equivalent as the statewide minimum training standard • Develop a comprehensive State-level radar operator certification program and provide for periodic recertification (every 1-3 years) • Develop police radar workshops and seminars for traffic adjudication personnel Speed Enforcement Policy Every police department utilizing a speed enforcement program needs written policies and formal training guidelines. The policy should contain a statement identifying at what levels discretionary mandatory enforcement will take place. In some departments less a certain number of miles per hour over the posted limit is allowed discretionary enforcement and any speed over this amount requires a mandatory ticket. If you set such a requirement as this, recognize that not all motorists have accurate speedometers, and the tolerance should allow for at least normal speedometer error. Some departments allow their officers to issue warnings at differing speeds depending on time of day and road, traffic and weather conditions. Still other departments determine the 85th percentile speed—that is, the speed at which 85 percent or greater of all traffic is traveling below, and set a tolerance for each roadway depending on that figure. All policies should include a monitoring function to ensure compliance. A policy should include the following areas: # Qualifications of officers # Recertification of speed measuring devices # Supervision # Selecting a Location # Positioning the Unit # Operation and Calibration of radar or LIDAR # Apprehension # Arrest and Detention # Prosecution # Written Warnings # Storage of the Radar or LIDAR Units # Logs (Implementation and Maintenance) There also should be tickler files for the recertification of radar and LIDAR units and formal maintenance procedures. RECOMMENDATIONS Based on the test results the report suggested several recommendations as summarized below; Adopt radar standards and require police agencies to follow standards, Develop policy guidelines for radar maintenance, testing, and calibration, Keep adequate maintenance and calibration records, Establish minimum training standards, Develop State-level certification (renew every 1 to 3 years), Develop radar workshops and seminars for traffic adjudication personnel, Establish State-level policy/procedural guidelines to ensure proper use.
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#15
10-02-2006, 12:41 PM
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| Aww, man, you had to go and bring me off the belly laugh I got from YAG's post (after I spewed coffee, thanks, YAG). I sure hope you never get a ticket YAG, cuz now that you've revealed the secret gesture, it is null & void for you to ever use again. Tsk, tsk.
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