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22349(A) Freeway Speeding: Paced at Night

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infocus

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

First ticket ever: 82mph in 65 zone (freeway), the CHP officer marked it down to 80. I don't think I have much of a case (clear view, no weather, I wasn't avoiding any potholes, no errors on ticket, etc.) Questions:

Should I submit a written not guilty plea? What would a sample of this document and what argument could I make? Perhaps he mistook my car for another one, but how would I prove this?

If I contest my ticket by mail and the officer writes a written response, could I then go to online traffic school, or would I lose that opportunity?
 


infocus

Member
That's a sound question! :) I figured that if it's contested and I win, then I can save the traffic school for another ticket if I get one down the road, as I believe there is a period of time that has to elapse before you can use it again. Plus the time involved with traffic school is not that desirable.

What would a sample of a TBD (trial by declaration) document and what argument could I make? Perhaps he mistook my car for another one, but how would I prove this?
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That's a sound question! :) I figured that if it's contested and I win, then I can save the traffic school for another ticket if I get one down the road, as I believe there is a period of time that has to elapse before you can use it again. Plus the time involved with traffic school is not that desirable.
If you contest and lose, you might not get traffic school.
 

Jim_bo

Member
If you do a TBWD, you don't have to present any defense at all. You can simply state, "I am not guilty".

If the officer doesn't submit a timely statement, you win. Not real likely, but it costs you nothing.

You can still do traffic school if you loose the TBWD.
 

occharge

Member
What would a sample of a TBD (trial by declaration) document
Google TR-200 and you'll see the "Instructions to Defendant" form... Google TR-205, that's the actual form that you would need to complete... It's pretty simple and straight forward... assuming you have some sort of argument stating that you're not guilty.

what argument could I make? Perhaps he mistook my car for another one, but how would I prove this?
HE PACED YOU!!!!!

Which means, he was looking at your car as sped up to you and matched his vehicle's speed with yours; when he determined he was going about the same speed, he glanced down at his speedometer and came up with the 82mph!

I'm no legal expert, but I'm not really sure what sort of legal argument you can concoct out of that one!!!! You can challenge the accuracy of his vehicle's speedometer, but I'm willing to bet "the farm" that he "just recently had his speedometer calibrated and has the certificate to prove it" and that he will state that in open court or on his "Officer's Declaration"...

BTW, your fine for 82 in 65 would have been approximately $266 (may vary slightly depending on which county you were cited in)
By him citing you for 80 in 65, your fine should be approximately $146 thereby saving you $120. Chances are, he sees you're contesting the citation, he reads his notes, and he will almost sure send in his declaration... And while you have no justifiable argument to a not guilty verdict, you are almost sure to forfeit your bail.

The choice is your though...
 
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infocus

Member
Wow, great answers. Very, very good. Yes, he did save me money by lowering the reported speed. And yes, he probably will respond. I am not sure what "I will forfeit my bail" means?

So the other option is driving school, is there one that someone has used or recommends? Online seems like the obvious choice!

Also, it seems that some courts don't allow online school? One website told me: "Your court does not ordinarily approve online traffic schools. However, you may obtain special permission from your court to take traffic school online." How does one get permission to do this?
 
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occharge

Member
When you go to the clerk's window at court and request Trial by Declaration you also have to post bail (as in pay your fine in advance) so that if you lose, they already have their money... Forfeiting your bail means you decide to not proceed with the TBD thereby saying just keep my money... i.e. "Forfeiting my bail".

Actually, I used the term incorrectly in my last post when I suggested that when you lose you're forfeiting your bail when in fact when you lose, they're keeping your money whether you like it or not.

As for traffic school, nobody on here has been to traffic school in years, we are all law abiding citizens. J/K
When you go to court to pay your fine, request the school and pay the additional fee for that, they will give you a list of "approved schools" to choose from.
The course material is the same and they are all judged by the same standard which is set by the DMV ... So pick the cheaest one, also, you might wanna choose one that will report automatically (electronically) to the DMV upon your completion of the course.
 

infocus

Member
1. Why do I actually have to visit the court? If I do a TBWD, it's in the mail...
2. Why do I have to request traffic school by going to the court?

Basically, my question is, why do I need to appear at the court at all?
 

occharge

Member
I personally like to get dated receipts for my payments... I also like to get copies of any documents I file or submit stamped with a dated "filed" or a dated "received"...

Think of it this way: if a payment is not credited on time or document filed on time then its my azz that's on the line.


If you're a distance away from the court & when it comes to filing submitting documents then mail everything "certified w/ return receiipt requested".
 

Jim_bo

Member
1. Why do I actually have to visit the court? If I do a TBWD, it's in the mail...
2. Why do I have to request traffic school by going to the court?

Basically, my question is, why do I need to appear at the court at all?
You don't. If you call the number at the bottom of your tickets, either should be available to you over the phone.
 

Hey There

Member
infocus

A driver can also ask for a later date to appear in court by calling the court.
Discovery can be requested by the driver for a copy of the officer's notes, a video if one was used and evidence the officer plans to use in court. A simple Request for Discovery specific to pacing can be downloaded from Help! I Got A Ticket! as well as instructions on filing. A friend , NOT the driver mails the request Certified, Return Receipt, to the D.A. and the citing officer. A proof of service form is also available on the above website which the friend fills out and the driver retains for his records.
If possible it's best to have Discovery before submitting a Trial by Declaration or even entering a plea.
Trial by Declaration.
Jim_bo and occharge have posted information on Trial by Declaration.
IF the judge rules against a driver in Trial by Declaration then the driver has 20 days to file for a new trial. This form TR-220) is available from a court clerk or can be downloaded from the same site that has the Discovery form. A different judge can be requested for trial as well.A form Peremptory Challenge(CCP 170.6)is a simple statement by the driver that the current judge is prejudiced against his interest , but a form can be copied from the back of a book published by Nolo on fighting tickets in CA.This book also has 26 questions to ask the officer in court if pacing is used to determine the driver's speed.
Speeding Ticket -- Fighting or Plea Bargaining
website also has a page onwhat can affect the accuracy of Pacing.

Best Regards,
Hey There
 

infocus

Member
Wow, amazing. Great, I am going to start with the first step. Discovery. Let's see what happens after that!

In the cover letter to the district attorney, it recommends to CC: a number of people, especially if the ticket was in Orange County. In my case it was!!! So should I CC: all these individuals??? listed here for your convenience:

cc:
<the court>
[optional]
<U.S. Attorney [highly recommended, especially for cases in Orange County]
Attorney General of California
County Supervisor(s)
Local Newspaper(s) [Alan Bock at the OC Register for cases in Orange County]
Etc.>
 
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