87/55, out of state

[pmonk330]

VA license
PA ticket

was going 87 in 55
was a little confused b/c i sped up to pass a car, then moved back into the right lane and slowed down... and it appeared as if the car i just passed was the police car (not sure as it was dark, but there weren't many other cars on the road).... does the police car need to be stopped in order to get a radar reading?

first ticket, not sure what to do... is there anything I can do to get it reduced? What state's (VA? PA?) point system will be applied? Will they mail me about a court hearing? Or do I need to pay the ticket first?

 

[Bravo8]

Was the ticket marked as "radar"? Are you sure it was a State Trooper?

While certain types of radar allow an officer to obtain a speed readin on another vehicle while moving, I don't know of any barracks that use such equipment. Then again, there are 60-some-odd PSP barracks in the sate, and I am speaking from personal knowledge of my local 3 barracks.

If it wasn't a State Trooper, then it certainly wasn't radar that he used.

You were issued a copy of the citation, no? Then you need to enter a plea within ten days - either guilty (and pay the fine) or not guilty. Follow the instructions on the back of your copy.

If you plead not guilty, then the court will schedule a hearing date. If you don't enter a plea within 10 days, the court will issue a warrant for your arrest and PennDOT will suspend your driver's license and that suspension will likely be honored by Virginia - causing your Virginia license to become suspended.

Upon conviction, PA will issue you a DL number (basically for record-keeping purposes) and levy points against it. Whether VA will levy points against your DL in VA, you would have to check your state's laws regarding that. A call to your DOT or DMV should clear up that issue.

 

[pmonk330]

is there any option besides not guilty and guilty? i don't really think i can argue innocence ... but entering guilty, will i get a court hearing? or if i want to ask for a reduction?

i read somewhere about some 3111(a) ? is that still possible for me or is my violation too severe? Or is traffic school an option?

finally, i read somewhere else that only 2 points will show up in my home state because this is an out-of-state violation, is this true?

i'm ready to pay the fine (as i was speeding), but am more concerned about my previously clean record of driving and my insurance. boy, i sure know how to go out with a bang. first ticket... possible suspension of license

 

[lwpat]

You need to enter not guilty in order to schedule a hearing and hopefully get the citation reduced. If you just pay it then it will be reported back to VA and it is a six point violation. This will mean a major increase in your insurance. Just a reduction of 2 mph will get you below the 20 over.

The two points is NJ.

The officer may agree to a 3111 which would be about the best you could hope for. If you cannot return for court then retain an attorney since you will still save money.

Do a google search for "Virginia Drivers License Point system" and you will see what the points are for various violations.

To Bravo

Are the locals not allowed to use radar? Most states have the front and rear moving radar and some can even track two vehicles. I have also heard that there are problems with the radars being used in PA. Anythiing to it?

 

[loulblades]

My state: PA

Unless I am missing it, you didn't say how your speed was ascertained. That is kind of important.

Whether you were speeding or not isn't what is relevant. Whether the state can prove you were speeding is.

 

[pmonk330]

speed was detected with radar

i'm quite sure the state can prove i was speeding... i'm only hoping for leniency with the points so my insurance doesn't get hiked up

should i be looking for a PA lawyer?

 

[loulblades]

Don't be so sure. I have had 2 tickets (radar) dismissed in the past 2 years and have just sent in a not guilty for one I received last weekend (actually 1 of the 2 was my wife's).

Many assume the radar is absolute but the reading is just a piece of evidence that must have the proper basis. If you don't feel you can handle it yourself, a lawyer might be your best bet, but just pleading guilty is hardly a good option. It does take a change of perspective IMHO.

As I mentioned in an earlier post (at least this is what I have been told): 75% of people plead guilty and of the 25% that plead not guilty, 50% win thier case. A 50% chance is better than 0, again, IMHO.

 

[pmonk330]

can i ask how you were able to get the tickets dismissed? was it just by taking it to court? or did you have to argue anything?

i guess i know i was speeding... maybe not quite as fast as he said i was, but really... it's just a matter of one or two miles so i can't really argue

is it mandatory for me to be at the court hearing? or will it be better (better chance of getting off?) if i am present? 'cause i'm about 2-3 hours away from where i got the ticket... and to be quite honest, i'm not too keen on driving in that area after this

 

[loulblades]

Yes I did have to go to court as you must if you plead not guilty. Just as the officer must be there. If he (or she) doesn't show and you do, you can get a dismissal (you must request it in a proper fashion). I don't have my records in front of me to look at the hearing notice, but if you don't show I guess one of two things would happen: A warrant could be issued for you or the judge could pass sentencing in abstensia, which would be the same as pleading guilty and they would keep your check. When you send in the form and check the not guilty box on the back of your ticket, I don't think it would be a good idea not to show. Could piss off the judge, which is never a good idea. Although I believe you can change your plea at any time up to and including the court date. Also if you read the back of the ticket you will see that you must remit the fine + $6 for collateral and they will send you a hearing notice with court date. Of course you get this back if you win your case.

I helped my neighbor with a ticket recently and when the officer saw the info she was carrying he asked her to step into an adjacent room and the ticket was pleaded down to a fine with no points. They got their money (which is most important, the machine must be fed), she got no points, everybody's happy.

Anyway I did go to court but did not testify except to present the necessary motions. There is most likely nothing you can say that would help your case. Excuses and explanationas, unless very extraordinary, are a waste of time. However it is the officer's testimony and evidence presented that is important.

IMHO pleading guilty right off does nothing to benefit the accused (you). Remeber you are being "accused of speeding". If you plead not guilty three things can happen:
1. You go to court and lose with no plea arrangement (same as pleading guilty)
2. You manage a plea arrangement (maybe lower fine, lower or no points), usually before going into court,
3. You win your case and spend the time but pay no money or get points.

The worst case is #1 which will cost you an extra $6 and your time. Since I don't have any experience with #1, I am not sure if the judge can attach any more court costs than are on the ticket (maybe someone else knows). As I mentioned, 50% of those who contest supposedly win. I guess you could say you actually have a 66.6% (2 out of 3) chance to do better than just pleading guilty.

So from the time you got your ticket, you have 10 days to submit your plea (give the mail some time to work unless you are sending fedex). Then you have time till your hearing date to do your research and prep. If you don't think you can deal with it, change your plea at that point.

Wow, this is getting pretty long. If you decide to fight, let me know and I will point you in the right direction.

Also make sure you send your mail certified so you get a receipt for when they receive it. The U.S. mail system....well you know.

Disclaimer: I am not a police officer, lawyer or judge. I am not giving legal advice, just stating what, IMHO, is obvious from personal experience.

Good luck whatever you decide, and may the force be with you.

 

[pmonk330]

I'm thinking of hiring a lawyer in the county where I received my ticket. I guess I'm still afraid about the effects on my driving record (or heck, even my criminal record since this seems to be reckless driving) and my insurance.

loulblades- What information did you help your neighbor to prepare for her ticket?

Realistically, do you think it'll be possible for me to get away with just a fine and no points? I know that I can't hope for the best (impossible?) scenario, but man... it'd be nice to avoid points.

Should I approach my insurance company and ask if they have any thing I can do to lessen the effects this first ticket will have on my insurance? Like traffic school or something? Or will approaching my insurance company just tip them off to the fact that I'm getting a ticket?

 

[loulblades]

A lawyer that is familiar with PA laws especially where you got the ticket may be a worthwhile investment.

When I got my first ticket (not the first in my life, but first in 14 years or so) I had little choice but to fight. I was doing 97 in 65 and that can mean license suspension in PA. I researched PA laws and everyone who claims they can beat speeding tickets. The best I found was at www.BeatMySpeedingTicket.com. I read the free stuff and ordered the book. It was well worth way more than I paid. Not only the info provided but it changed my perspective (soundin' like a tv preacher). I have used the methods on 2 tickets and received dismissals. One of these days I must write a testimonial for them.

So what I provided my neighbor was my knowledge, applicable case laws and a step by step guide of what to do (that I wrote). I don't think it was the info she had that got the officer's attention, more that she looked prepared (the officer didn't know what she had in her folders). Of course the folders may not have been the reason at all, she said he looked down at them and asked her to step into another room. Most of what I have seen in court for speeding defense is excuses. I figure it takes more time to deal with someone who is prepared in a busy courtroom, well you know.

As far as contacting your insurance ahead of time, I would advise against it. There is plenty of time for that later if you want. Also if you get a dismissal or reduced fine/points, that would be a better time contact them (not for the dismissal of course).

BTW: I received my hearing notice yesterday and I have about 3 weeks to prepare.

Good luck
"Chance favors the prepared mind"

 

[pmonk330]

So I hired a lawyer and he faxed me the retainer agreement today. He also faxed me a letter he had sent on my behalf to the court, basically entering my plea and saying that he would be representing me.

So I guess that will be in place of me mailing in the ticket. And the lawyer did mention over the phone when I spoke to him that I wouldn't need to mail in the ticket.

... so do I not need to send in the collateral (ticket fine + $6)? I'm guessing maybe because I hired a lawyer... and of course need to pay the lawyer's retainer fee, that the court might count that as proof that I will show up in court for my hearing? I don't know...just taking a stab at this. Anyone know for sure? I want to make sure I don't do anything wrong in this process. (I called my lawyer and left a message with his secretary, but he never called me back. I'll be going out of town tomorrow so I need to mail my ticket out before I leave at 7:30am in the morning.... so I can't wait for my lawyer to call me back tomorrow )

 

[Bravo8]

lwpat- Municipal police officers in Pennsylvania are prohibited by statute from using radar. Only the State Police are permitted to use radar. Just about every year, some legislator introduces a bill to change the law, and every year it goes nowhere.

The reason for the opposition is that people feel it will cause small departments (which PA has an abundance of) to become "ticket machines". Then again, many small departments ARE little more than "ticket machines" as it is. In my opinion, 99% of cops in these small departments couldn't care less about the revenue....they just like to be cops. Have to do something to keep busy - so the lack of calls / criminal activity tends to cause an increase in traffic enforcement.

Also, it's not as if there are not a multitude of other speed enforcement devices - ESP, Accutrack, VASCAR, Tracker, etc. Truth be told, if the PA legislature changed the radar law, I doubt my department would even consider buying one. I suspect many other departments would be the same.

But I digress.......

If you plead not guilty and ask for a hearing, you must be present. I have never heard of a Judge issuing a warant for someone failing to appear at a summary trial, and I'm not sure if it's even permitted, but they will likely find you guilty in abstentia.

Loulblades seems to be pretty knowledgeable. While I don't know if the folders that loulblades' friend had with her ahd any impact on the officer's decision to offer a plea, it's actually pretty common to offer pleas to lesser charges (reduced speeds or another offense such as 3111a). It speeds things along and usually makes the Judge happy.

I would contact the court to ask about the trial security. Granted, your attorney sending the letter to the court may be accepted in lieu of your plea and trial security, but I would want to hear it directly from the court.

 

[loulblades]

The push for radar use by local cops is pretty hard and I expect it to happen before long. The current version includes a provision that only a certain percentage of a municipality's revenue can come from the radar (can't recall the % this second).

I just received my hearing notice a couple days ago and it had the following: "Should you fail to appear for your trial, a warrant MAY be issued for your arrest" (my emphasis). In the next paragraph it talks about being found guilty in abstensia and forfeiting your collateral (too long to quote). Anyway I think it would be a foolish move not to show up after entering a not guilty plea.

 

[Bravo8]

Anyway I think it would be a foolish move not to show up after entering a not guilty plea.

Agreed, but it happens quite often. Many people think it inconveniences the officer, but I welcome the OT. For the 15 or so minutes I am in court, I get a minimum of 2 hours OT.

As for the radar issue, they had all sorts of goofy restrictions. Not only is the percentage of revenue based on radar tickets restricted, but the officer has to be publicly visible or some crap, and no points wil be assessed unless more than 26 mph over or higher. I remember them discussing removing some of these restrictions, but don't recall which ones or if the most recent incarnation of this bill includes them.