$938.75 Ticket for doing "40+" in a 25...Advice on contesting? (California)

[bautista3000]

I got pulled over on Halloween night at 4:10am, and was asked by the cop if I knew how fast i was going. I basically said that I thought I was going at a "safe speed" and keeping up with traffic and he responded by telling me that I passed another vehicle and was going about 40. I honestly don't remember passing another car, but if that was true, then ok...The officer didn't mention anything about radar and after I got home with the ticket, I noticed that on the ticket, under "Speed Approx." he had written "40+" (in a 25 zone) and under "Radar" it was blank. Under "Comments", there was this: "Foggy - Passed other vehicle Unsafe". With all this, I was thinking that the ticket would be no more than $300.

I was surprised to receive the fine in the mail for $938.75. I don't know if the high fine is due to the weather conditions or what, but these were my violations:
VC-22350 Unsafe Speed
VC-16028A Evidence Financial Resp (I'm just noting this in case it may be the reason for the high fee...I don't think it should be though because I was told (by the officer) that not having my updated insurance with me would just be a $10 fix-it ticket)

I've spoken to a few friends (some of whom are even officers themselves), and everyone agrees the fine is way too high and that I should contest the ticket...this is where I need help. Here are a few pieces of evidence/arguments I have thought of so far:

-A weather report for the area stating that at the time, visibility was 10 miles, with no mention of fog (it is noted if there is any)
-No Radar, so the cop had to estimate my speed by eye (right?) -- I was driving a black car at night, making it harder for the officer to estimate my speed (also, how was he able to accurately measure speed with the "fog"?)
-Traffic was VERY light -- it was 4:10am, and it was noted that I passed ONE vehicle, which could have been driving below the speed limit itself...there was no note of how rapidly I passed up the car
-I was travelling at what I believed to be a safe speed at the time due to traffic and weather conditions...I also thought the limit was 35mph because we were in a commercial area, yet the speed limit was 25mph...I'll admit that at the most, I was probably going around 37mph

I'm worried that the "no radar" argument may not work, because I was told that some officers are "radar certified," meaning that they do not need to use a radar and that the speed they note will stand in court. Ideally, I'd like to get the ticket thrown out, but at the least, I'd like to get a (large) reduction in the fine. I just graduated college and am without a job, so I can't afford this right now.

So please, any advice/suggestions as to what i should do or what steps to take. Thanks in advance.

[CourtClerk]

The insurance charge is the reason the fine is so high. The courtesy notices calculate full fines and do not discount for correctable violations. It will be done at the court when you provide proof that you were insured at the time you received the ticket.

Just be aware for future reference, although the insurance ticket is correctable and will be reduced to $10 after you provide proof of insurance, there are some tickets that are quite expensive and just getting out of college and being unemployed is no excuse to have a statutory fine reduced or completely vacated. If you cannot afford to drive, please don't do so until you are able to afford it.

[Hey There]

11-24-07
bautista,

Fortunately a driver cited for a traffic violation in Ca. is entitled to a copy of the officer notes, the front and back of the traffic ticket, the officer's notes, the video recording (if one was taken), and other information that is relevant to a speeding ticket if that is the violation the driver was cited for.
Obtaining evidence the officer plans to use in court is called Informal Discovery. The driver makes a written request. A friend hand delivers a copy to the officer's police station and a copy to the D.A. OR mails the request (certified return receipt requested suggested) to the officer and the D.A.The friend also has copies made of a proof of service or mailing (a simple statement that the friend has done so and has complied with requirements (18yrs.+etc.) to be allowed to do so.

On The Internet by going to Google
1)and typing in Discovery for Traffic Tickets you will find websites on the first page with detailed instructions on how to request Discovery.
2.)by typing in Help! I Got Ticket! a form to request Discovery can be downloaded as well as instructions for requesting it.
3)IN A BOOK published by NOLO on fighting a ticket in Ca. Discovery is explained. A form to request Discovery which can be copied, is provided in the back of the book.This book can likely be checked out from a library.

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In Ca. you are entitled to a Trial by Declaration .This means that a driver cited for a traffic violation has two chances to plead his case. Trial by Declaration is simply a written statement made by the cited driver to the judge who decides whether or not a violation has occurred by weighing what the driver states versus what the officer claims. If the judge rules against the driver, the driver can request a new trial, with a different judge hearing his case.
1)Information on Trial by Declaration can be found in Chapter 10, pages 9 thru 16 in the book mentioned earlier.
2)Help!I Got A Ticket! website has instructions for submitting a Trial by Declaration.
3)Typing in Trial by Declaration on Google will bring up websites with information on how to submit a statement and what to do if the judge rules against the driver.
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In the book mentioned above in chapter 11, pages 26 thru 33 a listing of questions to ask the officer at trial is provided, depending on which method the officer used to determine the driver's speed. ALL methods have flaws that may give a incorrect reading of how fast the driver's car was travelling.
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For information on being cited for a traffic violation all the way up to appeal (which is difficult to win) the book published by NOLO and authored by a lawyer, gives a detailed description of what a driver's options are.
For concise information from being issued a traffic ticket up to appeal I have found Help! I Got A Ticket! very useful. George McCalip will answer questions specific to a driver's case via the E:mail address he gives on his website.
There are other sources of information on the web and other books published on speeding, but these are two sources that I have found to be the most useful in my case.
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Pertaining to fines it's the assessments on the fine that makes the fine so costly. An example is given in the book published by NOLO where a base fine of $50.00 ends up, with Penalty Assessments as $249.00.
CourtClerk is right regarding the Insurance Violation.
If the officer didn't check being unable to provide proof of insurance as a correctable violation on the ticket a court appearance is required.
A Form signed by the INSURANCE AGENT certifying that the car being driven was insured at the time the driver was cited should upon being shown to the judge reduce it to a correctable violation with a $10.00(NO Assessments) fine.

Regards,
Hey There

[florencesc2007]

you can plead not guilty and the prosecutor will offer you a plea to keep it from going to trial. im sure the officer is radar certified and does not need to use a radar or lidar. during training you have to estimate a vehicles speed within plus or minus 1 mile per hour. and if you ant do that you will not be certified. but if i were you i would plead not guilty what do you have to lose. if you lose you the fine will still be the same.

[JIMinCA]

[quote=florencesc2007;1775171]you can plead not guilty and the prosecutor will offer you a plea to keep it from going to trial.QUOTE]

I really doubt a prosecutor is going to offer you a plea bargain for no prosecutor will likely ever see this. Typically, there are no prosecutig attorneys in traffic court.

Do what HEY THERE said. Request discover and do it NOW!! Do it the way you are told on HELPIGOTATICKET.com. Remember to do the Proof of Service.

It sucks if he didn't use any radar or other electronic device to measure speed because I'd bet that the 25mph speed limit is an unjustified limit. If he used any electronic device used to measure speed, an unjustified speed limit would constitute a speed trap. Therefore, it is important that you get his notes. If he mentions that he used radar in his notes, you could have a good speedtrap defense. If he says that he paced you, you could have a good speed trap defense (the speedometer in his car is an electronic device used to measure speed of a vehicle).

Get the discovery request going and see what happens. Keep us posted.

[bautista3000]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I plan to request Discovery using the steps/forms provided on HELPIGOTATICKET.COM, but I have a few more questions. My ticket tells me I have to go to court on or before December 31st, so if I am requesting discovery and preparing my case, it would be a good idea to request an extension, correct? I'm assuming that whole process will not be that fast. I'll look up how to do that later on, but if anyone wants to provide the steps on here, you're more than welcome. Also, my violation for No Proof of Insurance was marked as NOT Correctable. HeyThere mentioned that I need to have a form signed by an insurance agent to have the fine reduced....how do I go about doing this? Will bringing my current proof of insurance (the updated one that I did not have in the car with me) to court not be enough? Let me know. Thanks again.

[bautista3000]

Oh, and also, I think I read that if I try to do a Trial by Declaration, I have to mail in the money for bail (full amount), which I cannot afford to do, along with my argument. Is this correct? In that case, should I skip this option completely?

[bautista3000]

I keep forgetting to add things...one last thing:

I cannot read the name of the Arresting or Citing Officer on my ticket because it is a signature that appears to be a single letter (a "D"). However, there is a number under "Serial No."...will that help me find the officer's name? I need this information to put on the request for discovery, so I'm not really sure what to do here.

[JIMinCA]

Originally Posted by bautista3000

Thanks everyone for the responses. I plan to request Discovery using the steps/forms provided on HELPIGOTATICKET.COM, but I have a few more questions. My ticket tells me I have to go to court on or before December 31st, so if I am requesting discovery and preparing my case, it would be a good idea to request an extension, correct? I'm assuming that whole process will not be that fast. I'll look up how to do that later on, but if anyone wants to provide the steps on here, you're more than welcome. Also, my violation for No Proof of Insurance was marked as NOT Correctable. HeyThere mentioned that I need to have a form signed by an insurance agent to have the fine reduced....how do I go about doing this? Will bringing my current proof of insurance (the updated one that I did not have in the car with me) to court not be enough? Let me know. Thanks again.

NO!!! You should not ask for an extension. If you ask for an extension, then you waive your right to a trial within 45 days. The court date on your ticket is for your arraignment, not your trial. You will have to be given a court date 45 days after your arraignment or your charges will have to be dismissed.

Do your discovery request now. Call the agency that issued the ticket to get the officer's name. If you can't get it, just state that his name was illegible in the request. Go to your arraignment after Christmas, plead not guilty, and ask to be released on your own recognizance (ROR). Otherwise, you'll have to pay the whole amount as bail. Once you determine if the judge is going to let you go ROR, tell him you would like a trial by written declaration.

File your discovery request, just as it tells you on HELPIGOTATICKET, with the DA. You may be told that you have to file it with the ticketing agency. This is wrong. The Penal Code makes discovery the responsibility of the DA. Keep in mind that the DA's office will likely ignore your request. If so, you have grounds for dismissal.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.