Accused of running red, do I have recourse?

[Spike]

Pennsylvania

Hello,
I live in PA and I recently got a ticket for running a red light. The only problem is, I didn't run a red light. I clearly saw the police officer about 2 storefronts away waiting in a store's parking lot. I passed him and he pulled out behind me. I proceeded through a yellow light as I did not think it would be appropriate to slam my brakes on and have a police officer rear end me. I was moving at 20 MPH and accelerated to 25 MPH (the spped limit) to make it through the yellow. The officer followed me for 3 blocks and 1 left turn before turning on his lights to pull me over as I was in a downtown area. I don't believe there is a camera, although I wish there were so I can have proof that I did not do anything wrong. On the ticket, the officer wrote that I, "proceeded through a steady red light". If that is the case, how did he follow me for 3 blocks without turning his lights on? There was traffic that day and that would mean he ran a red light to follow me and endangered other civilians. I want to fight this ticket but I was ticketed in the town I live in where it is also a very small town. I fear my contesting of this citation would make me a target and I'm sure it will come down to my word VS. his. Is it even possible to contest this and win? I am 24 and have a spikey haircut, even though I am a recruiting professional for a healthcare company and I fear I will not be taken seriously or given respect. Please help!!!

[moburkes]

If you had slammed on your brakes, and was hit by the police officer, then he would have been wrong, not you. I'm not sure what you can do.

[cepe10]

first of all if you are in the right you should contest it, letting a LEO with a power trip go on unchecked allows him to do it more... if you and a few other contest the bogus citations he may not be able to do it anymore...

He can not act in a vindictive way later and get away with it very easily....

Even though it is your word against his, If he does not show up you should get dismissal.

You have some extremely valid points to question him should he take the stand, the judge may see he is "being inventive" as well and could offer you deferment or some other option even if he finds you guilty...

[Spike]

Thanks Cepe10. Honestly, the courthouse is across the street from the police station so I assure you he will show up. I don't know how a hearing works and must admit I am a bit intimidated. The police in this town act more like gangsters and I have seen them let girls caught drinking underage go, I have seen drug dealers let go, and I have even seen one pick a fight and flash his gun to someone who was dating the officer's ex-girlfriend. I don't want these factors to discourage me from fighting this citation but I wonder how deep the corruption runs. I have even seen them let someone go who is going the wrong way on a one way street, outside of a bar. This really is a small town. I appreciate your advice.

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by Spike

Thanks Cepe10. Honestly, the courthouse is across the street from the police station so I assure you he will show up. I don't know how a hearing works and must admit I am a bit intimidated. The police in this town act more like gangsters and I have seen them let girls caught drinking underage go, I have seen drug dealers let go, and I have even seen one pick a fight and flash his gun to someone who was dating the officer's ex-girlfriend. I don't want these factors to discourage me from fighting this citation but I wonder how deep the corruption runs. I have even seen them let someone go who is going the wrong way on a one way street, outside of a bar. This really is a small town. I appreciate your advice.

Keep in mind that if it is a Kangeroo Kourt you do have an appeal option and for usually a small fee can appeal an erroneous decision... reversals are quite common...

The "hearing" will typically be quite informal. Keep in mind, you do not have to testify against yourself. You can simply question (cross examine) the officer and make your closing statement to reinforce your point.

Have your questions and statements written down and to the point...along with the exhibits.

[cepe10]

BTW, I can't wait to find out how the officer ran the "steady red light" without using emergency beacons to follow you...

[Spike]

Would that be illegal on the officer's part if he ran a red light without emergency beacons on? Also, do the car cameras run all the time or only when the beacons are on? If I was videotaped, will I have access to the tape? Finally, will I be asked questions directly by the officer? Man, this is so complicated I see why most people just pay the ticket. If it weren't burning a hole in my moral fabric I would probably have caved! Even if I lose, at least I will have my integrity; which is more than the officer can say!

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by Spike

Would that be illegal on the officer's part if he ran a red light without emergency beacons on? Also, do the car cameras run all the time or only when the beacons are on? If I was videotaped, will I have access to the tape? Finally, will I be asked questions directly by the officer? Man, this is so complicated I see why most people just pay the ticket. If it weren't burning a hole in my moral fabric I would probably have caved! Even if I lose, at least I will have my integrity; which is more than the officer can say!

No telling on cameras and you can probably only find out by filing a motion for discovery or a freedom of information act request with the officer's organization. I would not count on that video much...obviously it can be used and abused by those who have it in their patrol cars...

Yes, it is generally unlawful (and dangerous) for the officer to run the red light without lights or sirens!

You may want to ask him why he didn't engage lights and siren on cross?? - it seems to show like you said the light was yellow when he passed... either way does not look so good for the officer in this situation. warning though: you should only press so hard be polite and just try to show the court a mistake may have been made in this case...

Where did you pull me over and a diagram would be nice to show...

NO the officer can't question you - he can't even act as prosecutor unless he is a member of the bar, so technically there is no prosecutor against you. he can only testify...

Even the judge should not be able to question you much - just get your story if you want to provide it. Otherwise he is acting as both prosecutor and trier of fact which is a big NO NO in U.S. legal system

here is a resource on procedure for you, not PA but it is all quite similar usually...

[url]http://jec.unm.edu/resources/benchbooks/traffic_citations/ch_4.htm[/url]

It is not difficult just be prepared and rehearse and stick to your key point(s).

You are correct in that you only have to tell the truth and from what it sounds like the officer has to perjure himself or abandon the cit. either of which might be worth it for it's own merits...

[Zigner]

OP - this boils down to your word vs. police officer's word.
No matter what false hope Cepe tries to give you, you have to face the reality of the situation.
And, it's not illegal for the officer to proceed through the signal without siren/lights.
And, the reason you weren't stopped for 3 or 4 blocks could have been that the officer was running your license plate to see if he was dealing with a dangerous felon, or just an average citizen who ran a red light.

[cepe10]

The last poster is again quite incorrect with regard to emergency beacon use:
[url]http://www.dot10.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter31.pdf[/url]

§ 3105. Drivers of emergency vehicles.
(a) General rule.--The driver of an emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call
or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violatorof the law or when responding to but not upon
returning from a fire alarm or other emergency call, may exercise the privileges set forth in this
section, but subject to the conditions stated in this section.
(b) Exercise of special privileges.--The driver of an emergency vehicle may:
(1) Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this part.
(2) Proceed past a red signal indication or stop sign, but only after slowing down as
may be necessary for safe operation, except as provided in subsection (d).
(3) Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as the driver does not endanger life or
property, except as provided in subsection (d).
(4) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement, overtaking vehicles or
turning in specified directions.
(c) Audible and visual signals required.--The privileges granted in this section to an
emergency vehicle shall apply only when the vehicle is making use of an audible signal and visual
signals meeting the requirements and standards set forth in regulations adopted by the department.

Thus it was unlawful for the LEO to run the red light without the required flashing lights and siren (if he did indeed run the red light and not yellow.)

[You Are Guilty]

Originally Posted by cepe10

The last poster is again quite incorrect with regard to emergency beacon use:
[url]http://www.dot10.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter31.pdf[/url]

§ 3105. Drivers of emergency vehicles.
(a) General rule.--The driver of an emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call
or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violatorof the law or when responding to but not upon
returning from a fire alarm or other emergency call, may exercise the privileges set forth in this
section, but subject to the conditions stated in this section.
(b) Exercise of special privileges.--The driver of an emergency vehicle may:
(1) Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this part.
(2) Proceed past a red signal indication or stop sign, but only after slowing down as
may be necessary for safe operation, except as provided in subsection (d).
(3) Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as the driver does not endanger life or
property, except as provided in subsection (d).
(4) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement, overtaking vehicles or
turning in specified directions.
(c) Audible and visual signals required.--The privileges granted in this section to an
emergency vehicle shall apply only when the vehicle is making use of an audible signal and visual
signals meeting the requirements and standards set forth in regulations adopted by the department.

Thus it was unlawful for the LEO to run the red light without the required flashing lights and siren (if he did indeed run the red light and not yellow.)

And for the Nth time, whatever crime(s) the police allegedly committed in the process of arriving at the scene of the cite are completely immaterial and provide no defense whatsoever to the ticket(s) issued.

[Zigner]

Let's assume, for a moment, that the officer did "illegally" run the red light.
That doesn't change the fact that the officer saw the OP run the red and cited him for it, does it?

[sukharev]

Originally Posted by Zigner

And, it's not illegal for the officer to proceed through the signal without siren/lights.

Hmm, let's imagine that for just a second... Officer blows red light, somebody hits him and dies, do you care if it's legal or not? One of the main purposes siren/lights are created for is to identify/broadcast emergency vehicles not following traffic laws, so that everybody else can see/hear them and stop if needed.

That said, the judge would not be likely to dismiss the ticket just because officer did not hit the bar and went through red light. My advice to OP is try and negotiate for a non-moving violation.

[Zigner]

Oh, and Cepe - please tell me what research you've done to find that the "...requirements and standards set forth in regulations adopted by the department" were violated before you accuse the officer of somehow acting improperly.

[cepe10]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Oh, and Cepe - please tell me what research you've done to find that the "...requirements and standards set forth in regulations adopted by the department" were violated before you accuse the officer of somehow acting improperly.

You were incorrect in your statement...

"And, it's not illegal for the officer to proceed through the signal without siren/lights."

When clearly the PA statute says that it is illegal as I have provided for the forum the statute in question.

You can give it up now.