Advisory vs. Regulatory Speed Limit

[lexcom7]

This just happened on our way to Denver International Airport (Colorado).

Got a 78mph in a 50mph zone ticket (CRS 54-156)


Approximately here...
Denver International Airport, Colorado - Google Maps

Anyhow there is a 50 MPH advisory posted (black on yellow), in my opinion well ahead of where you really need to slow down to take the Spaghetti bowl turn. Speed limit coming off of E470 is 70mph FYI.

A few questions:
Can they enforce this advisory speed limit?
Can/should we fight it?
Not guilty or no contest?
Can the judge adjust the ticket to something else? Reckless driving etc?
I think the ticket is incorrect because we weren't speeding in a regulatory zone.

Your help is much appreciated!

Alex

 

[HomeGuru]

This just happened on our way to Denver International Airport (Colorado).

Got a 78mph in a 50mph zone ticket (CRS 54-156)


Approximately here...
Denver International Airport, Colorado - Google Maps

Anyhow there is a 50 MPH advisory posted (black on yellow), in my opinion well ahead of where you really need to slow down to take the Spaghetti bowl turn. Speed limit coming off of E470 is 70mph FYI.

A few questions:
Can they enforce this advisory speed limit?
Can/should we fight it?
Not guilty or no contest?
Can the judge adjust the ticket to something else? Reckless driving etc?
I think the ticket is incorrect because we weren't speeding in a regulatory zone.

Your help is much appreciated!

Alex

**A: you were still going over the speed limit period.

 

[lexcom7]

Thanks for your short and pointless answer which is no use to me. Sounds like a prosecution attorney's attitude. The questions are posted, none answered. I agree we were speeding, however, that doesn't give to cop the right to give us a ticket based on a advisory speed limit. If he wanted to site us for something else fine. But IT IS NOT A 50 MPH REGULATORY ZONE!

Pleas see...
Speed Limit ? Here's Your Answer

I have lot's more sources describing the difference Iowa, Texas and US Gov. if you need them to make an educated statement.

Cheers, and thanks again.

 

[HomeGuru]

Thanks for your short and pointless answer which is no use to me. Sounds like a prosecution attorney's attitude. The questions are posted, none answered. I agree we were speeding, however, that doesn't give to cop the right to give us a ticket based on a advisory speed limit. If he wanted to site us for something else fine. But IT IS NOT A 50 MPH REGULATORY ZONE!

Pleas see...
Speed Limit ? Here's Your Answer

I have lot's more sources describing the difference Iowa, Texas and US Gov. if you need them to make an educated statement.

Cheers, and thanks again.

**A: ok, then I will refrain from posting cases to support your claim.

 

[racer72]

Thanks for your short and pointless answer which is no use to me. Sounds like a prosecution attorney's attitude. The questions are posted, none answered. I agree we were speeding, however, that doesn't give to cop the right to give us a ticket based on a advisory speed limit. If he wanted to site us for something else fine. But IT IS NOT A 50 MPH REGULATORY ZONE!

Pleas see...
Speed Limit ? Here's Your Answer

I have lot's more sources describing the difference Iowa, Texas and US Gov. if you need them to make an educated statement.

Cheers, and thanks again.

The laws of other states are irrelevant.

 

[lexcom7]

"**A: ok, then I will refrain from posting cases to support your claim." ????

Interesting.
So your initial post of:
"**A: you were still going over the speed limit period. "
Actually meant, "Hold on while I research the issue and get back to you"?
You were actually going to find cases to support my claim?
My misunderstanding. I would love it if you still could.

As far as I legally see this case it's basically getting a murder in the 1st degree charge, when in reality you accidentally killed someone through neglect. There is a difference. I am simply asking how to go about getting the charge reduced or changed to what I think it really should be.

I would happily go with the 78 in a 70. If I did take the curve at 78, I would happily have the cop give me a reckless driving or something, but I didn't, there was plenty of time to slow down to negotiate the curve. That's what the intent of advisory is.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that sign was placed in accordance with US Department of Transportation guidelines.

This is where I am looking to draw my case from if I go down that route:
FHWA - MUTCD - 2003 Edition Revision 1 Chapter 2C


Alex

 

[Zigner]

"**A: ok, then I will refrain from posting cases to support your claim." ????

Interesting.
So your initial post of:
"**A: you were still going over the speed limit period. "
Actually meant, "Hold on while I research the issue and get back to you"?
You were actually going to find cases to support my claim?
My misunderstanding. I would love it if you still could.

As far as I legally see this case it's basically getting a murder in the 1st degree charge, when in reality you accidentally killed someone through neglect. There is a difference. I am simply asking how to go about getting the charge reduced or changed to what I think it really should be.

I would happily go with the 78 in a 70. If I did take the curve at 78, I would happily have the cop give me a reckless driving or something, but I didn't, there was plenty of time to slow down to negotiate the curve. That's what the intent of advisory is.

Furthermore, I highly doubt that sign was placed in accordance with US Department of Transportation guidelines.

This is where I am looking to draw my case from if I go down that route:
FHWA - MUTCD - 2003 Edition Revision 1 Chapter 2C


Alex

Great - good luck with your case.

 

[lexcom7]

race72 - other states.

The laws of other states are irrelevant.

From what I can tell all states reference their traffic laws to the USDOT Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Device (MUTCD). So what I found in other states should apply to the over-all argument, they are merely reiterating MUTCD stuff. Just can't find Colorado documentation to confirm.

The states looks to the fed for guidelines for what are posted on the streets, what they mean, and if there are penalties for violating. The state has indipendant laws for prosecuting and the penalty. That's why a red octagon with the word "stop" will get you a ticket for CRS54-258, disobedience to a Stop sign. The law for not stopping is state, but the signifigance of the sign comes from the USDOT. I do not see anywhere the state actually states a red octagon with the word "stop" means you must stop. If they didn't reference this USDOT doc. you may have stop sign in purple hexagons with "alto".

So if USDOT says the black and yellow is advisory.. it's advisory not enforceable. That's the point I'm trying to make. Either the cop or the state doesn't get it. I was just ticketed for violating a speed limit, I didn't do it, I chose to ignore the advise given to me, there is no law against that!

If one state says a back and yellow sign IS punishable, and one state says no... where would it stop. California stop signs???

Colorado, just gave me a ticket for something the USDOT says should NOT be punishable. I guess it would be funny to have states start deciding different rules.. how about in Nebraska a one way sign means you must drive backwards?

I'm not trying to be a smart alek here, I just did a bunch of research and I need some help interpreting it.

This is really interesting stuff, I think I may have to go to law school... just for traffic law.

BTW, that MUTCD is over 700 pages, it's full of REALLY interesting stuff. Stuff the states need to adhere to even if they have there own laws. For instance the position of a Stop sign. You can't put it thirty feat back from an intersection. Or can Colorado choose to do that?

 

[racer72]

Judges are sworn to uphold the laws of your state. If your state uses the guidelines in the federal regulations, the laws of your state will state such. States can also deviate from these regulations. An example of this is the speed limit on interstate freeways. The feds say it is 65 mph. Yet many states have deviated from this and upped the limit to 70 or even 75. There are many other examples of this. If your state wants to make advisory speed limit signs as the posted speed limit they can, regardless of the laws of other states. If you want to use the federal regs in your defense, find your state law that accepts the specific regulation you want to use.