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After midnight, signals turned off-nullify no left turn sign?

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Bozuzu

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Oregon

I got a ticket after midnight in a SMALL town in Oregon for going left at traffic signal that had a "no left turn" sign right above the signal. The traffic lights go on "flash" after midnight. I did it to park in front of my apartment coming home late from the library. Because of one way streets I would have had to have gone another mile's worth of right turns to get in to the same spot. There's no one from campus until home on the road, the town is dead, but of course there's this cop hiding in the shadows. It was so much money I actually drove to Salem to do the research (I needed to do some anyway for my history thesis). It was my senior year in college and $300.00 was twice what I had to my name.

The signs were erected in the 1960's, in what appears to have been a legal controversy (they were put up without proper processes being followed), in order to keep traffic flow when that street was a major thru-way. Now there's a 4 lane freeway just south of town. It's apparent they keep the signs just as a revenue generator for the city. Aside from the hideous fine, the judge was a zealot, and right in front of me dismissed a crying 17 year girl from her speeding ticket. I plead not guilty, but this judge would not even listen to me. He said, "did you go left?" And I said yes, but I did a lot of research and this is what I found. He cut me off and said he didn't want to hear it, and I objected, and he got straight with me and said, no joke, "would you like me to make it FIVE hundred dollars?!" I felt like that was some serious injustice.

My main question though is, if the no left turn sign is inherent in the traffic signal, and if the traffic signal is off, doesn't that in some way nullify the sign? Also, if the necessity for the signs can be disproved (post freeway), can't that also poke holes in the argument? From what I've been reading on here, I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of "just pay its" and "not worth its" and so on, but some actual legal justification would be nice. Thanks in advance.What is the name of your state?
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Just because the sign is mounted alonside, or on top of the signal doesn't make the sign any less valid.
So, I guess the question is this: Did you turn left?
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Oregon

I got a ticket after midnight in a SMALL town in Oregon for going left at traffic signal that had a "no left turn" sign right above the signal. The traffic lights go on "flash" after midnight. I did it to park in front of my apartment coming home late from the library. Because of one way streets I would have had to have gone another mile's worth of right turns to get in to the same spot. There's no one from campus until home on the road, the town is dead, but of course there's this cop hiding in the shadows. It was so much money I actually drove to Salem to do the research (I needed to do some anyway for my history thesis). It was my senior year in college and $300.00 was twice what I had to my name.

The signs were erected in the 1960's, in what appears to have been a legal controversy (they were put up without proper processes being followed), in order to keep traffic flow when that street was a major thru-way. Now there's a 4 lane freeway just south of town. It's apparent they keep the signs just as a revenue generator for the city. Aside from the hideous fine, the judge was a zealot, and right in front of me dismissed a crying 17 year girl from her speeding ticket. I plead not guilty, but this judge would not even listen to me. He said, "did you go left?" And I said yes, but I did a lot of research and this is what I found. He cut me off and said he didn't want to hear it, and I objected, and he got straight with me and said, no joke, "would you like me to make it FIVE hundred dollars?!" I felt like that was some serious injustice.

My main question though is, if the no left turn sign is inherent in the traffic signal, and if the traffic signal is off, doesn't that in some way nullify the sign? Also, if the necessity for the signs can be disproved (post freeway), can't that also poke holes in the argument? From what I've been reading on here, I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of "just pay its" and "not worth its" and so on, but some actual legal justification would be nice. Thanks in advance.What is the name of your state?
There is nothing you can do. An officer is required to enforce whatever signs may be on the road, even against those who were stupid enough to know the sign was there and ignore it anyways. If you bring it up in court, you will most likely lose since the sign was clearly posted. Perhaps this suit will lead to the removal of such signs, but it will have nothing to do with the fact that you disobeyed a sign that was clearly posted.
 

cepe10

Member
You'll need to scrub the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/

If the signage is not per regulations then the statute cannot be enforced in this case.

The light is acting as a stop sign

And the LEO is clearly not interested in the most likely intent of the verbage - namely, that through traffic is not impeded. Some open minded judges take exception to that anyway.
 

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