Avoiding a signal

[vacren]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

On my way to work this morning I took a "shortcut" through a city park. It's a marked and city maintained road, with a cop parked at (in the middle) the far end of the ~300yd road. There was a car in front of me, who pulled away a minute or so after I got there. I asked the officer why the road was blocked off and he said "the parks people are complaining about thoroughfare traffic coming through to avoid the signal" and had asked PD to ticket people doing so.

He asked how fast I was going, told him I had no idea and he asked or my license, which I provided. He then returned with a ticket for avoiding a traffic signal (IVC 625 11 305b), told me to sign it and sent me back the way I came. No lights, no siren, just a marked vehicle parked across the road.

I looked up my violation...

****(b) It is unlawful for any person to leave the roadway and travel across private property to avoid an official traffic control device.


I never admitted to bypassing the light, the road is NOT marked "no thru", and as far as this guy knew I was going to the park to enjoy my morning coffee.

My questions:

Are city parks considered private property?

Having been turned around, sent back to the light, I never actually avoided the signal. Still a violation?

Would this not be similar to being ticketed for avoiding signals by taking an interstate, highway, or other road? This is not a gas station parking lot, but a marked city road.

Thanks. I'm going to go do a little research on procedure.

 

[vacren]

Two hours of google and I can't find what I'm looking for, so suggestions on proper ticketing procedures in IL/Lake County (IVC numbers) are welcome as well.

 

[Zigner]

Two hours of google and I can't find what I'm looking for, so suggestions on proper ticketing procedures in IL/Lake County (IVC numbers) are welcome as well.

I could give you a cite to California law, if that would help...

 

[vacren]

If you could, that would give me a reference point to start with, or at least legal nomenclature for "ticketing procedure".

If you're referring to my post on the redlight camera, I think I provided several valid example defenses.

 

[Zigner]

If you're referring to my post on the redlight camera, I think I provided several valid example defenses.

You have no clue at all about California law - please don't post irrelevant info on other people's threads and I'll refrain from doing that on yours, deal?

 

[racer72]

Having been turned around, sent back to the light, I never actually avoided the signal. Still a violation?

All that is required is intent. The fact you turned on the road through the park is enough to prove that.

 

[vacren]

Zigner- I do appreciate and understand that CA is not IL. This is why I cap'd, italicized, and emboldened all instances of the state abbreviation. Anything was better than the bickering you incited, further provoked, then brought to my thread. I came here for help, which was kind of given. Still would like to see the CA vehicle safety code re: ticketing procedures since I split time between the two states.

Racer- intent aside, it is a city maintained road through a city/state owned (can't find a reference to actual ownership) public park. The article I was charged with makes specific referenced to private property. Does the ownership or possession of the land make any difference? Is there a definition in legalese of private which is different than the regular English definition? Honest questions, not being facetious and still looking for help.

A further question...

Being licensed in the state of WI, I am not required to appear for traffic court, does Illinois allow appearance by letter? I find my mouth doesn't work as well as my fingers when confronted with a situation where a disagreement could land me in county "facilities".

 

[Zigner]

Zigner- I do appreciate and understand that CA is not IL.

A gracious person would realize the error in their ways and post an apology for bringing up irrelevant information. You have not done so...but the above is close enough, I suppose

 

[vacren]

You are correct; a gracious person would have politely bowed to you being an overbearing, all knowing, egocentric and self centered forum troll.

I, however, don't have time for gracious. I spend 90+ hours a week training the next generation warfighter after having spent eight years defending your rights to a legal system which is supposed to protect against frivolous and unfounded citations used to supplement tax revenues to clean up a major drug distribution center.

A gracious person would have not crossed threads to comment on the only ACTUAL advice given in several posts. A truly gracious person wouldn't have asked for an apology in the first place, rather, would have sent a PM asking that I not post from similar experience, because it was in another state.

Forget this site. I used to be able to get absolutely amazing help here. Trolls like yourself have killed it. /deleteaccount

 

[Zigner]

You are correct.

Thank you.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

No lights, no siren, just a marked vehicle parked across the road.

Two hours of google and I can't find what I'm looking for, so suggestions on proper ticketing procedures in IL/Lake County (IVC numbers) are welcome as well.

If you're looking for ticketing procedures that require the officer to chase you down with lights and sirens on before they can issue a citation, you're not going to find them... Not sure where you get that idea from!

Would this not be similar to being ticketed for avoiding signals by taking an interstate, highway, or other road? This is not a gas station parking lot, but a marked city road.

I can't find any Illinois statute that prohibits using an interstate or a highway to avoid traffic signals... So thats a non starter as well.

I spend 90+ hours a week training the next generation warfighter after having spent eight years defending your rights to a legal system which is supposed to protect against frivolous and unfounded citations used to supplement tax revenues to clean up a major drug distribution center.

That sounds like you put a few sentences in a blender and ^this^ is what came out!


Here's a definition of "Private road or driveway" from the Illinois Vehicle Code:

Sec. 1‑163. Private road or driveway.

Every way or place in private ownership and used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner, but not by other persons.
(Source: P.A. 76‑1586.)​

​

​

IMO, it still doesn't make it clear enough whether the statute cited would apply or not.

 

[vacren]

Thank you.

You're welcome.

An actual response

Cool. I was more concerned with if he can ticket me by simply walking up to my vehicle while he's parked across an active roadway without lights on. It came from the il statute which defines evasion, specifying that the officer must have at least one flashing red light and siren on in a marked vehicle while the officer is uniformed for you to be cited for misdemeanor evasion, where felony evasion requires three separate violations while all previous conditions exists AND reckless disregard for public safety.

For the interstate, I was using an extereme description of taking an alternate route to avoid lights, which is what I did, on a similar public road.

As for the day job, I may have been unclear in the definition, but my students defend your rights. I never said it gave me leave to break the rules, just that it removed my desire to suffer fools, which you clearly are not

THIS is the type of help I have come to expect here. You, IGB, are a gentleman and a scholar and I owe you a drink. Your definition of a private road is likely all I'll need. Based on that, I did not violate the above mentioned code, a public road through a public park is not intended for private use.

~V

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I did not violate the above mentioned code

Actually, and by your own admission to having "taken a shortcut", you did albeit indirectly attempt to avoid a TCD.... Its just that you get off on a technicality. . Sound to me like the system you spent 8 years defending OUR rights to, is still alive and well.

So next time, try and pretend to enjoy your coffee somewhere else…

Good luck!

 

[vacren]

What I did was to avoid the light, but no different than you taking an alternate route to work to avoid areas with more signals, such as downtown areas.

I do appreciate your help

I use the term "your" rights and "your" legal system intentionally. In high military concentration areas, such as Great Lakes, IL or Norfolk, VA ("dogs and sailors keep off grass" "street girls bringing in sailors must pay for room in advance"), active duty service members are targeted by local PD because we are required to pay moving violations or run the risk of discharge (in extreme cases, or when a clearance is involved) and are subject to double jeopardy (speeding ticket = conduct unbecoming, DUI= Failure to Obey) if we don't handle things promptly. The rights which apply to John Q Public and Jane Doe do not apply to Ima Sailor and G.I. Joe.

 

[davew128]

In high military concentration areas, such as Great Lakes, IL or Norfolk, VA ("dogs and sailors keep off grass" "street girls bringing in sailors must pay for room in advance"), active duty service members are targeted by local PD because we are required to pay moving violations or run the risk of discharge (in extreme cases, or when a clearance is involved) and are subject to double jeopardy (speeding ticket = conduct unbecoming, DUI= Failure to Obey) if we don't handle things promptly. The rights which apply to John Q Public and Jane Doe do not apply to Ima Sailor and G.I. Joe.

Funny. I live exactly halfway between San Diego Naval Base and MCAS Miramar and its my observation of the exact opposite.