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AZ photo radar

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Chicagorick

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I am in AZ

I feel photo radar is not legal. I have been supeonaed but the violation says approximatley so many miles per hour. Approximatley is considered plus or minus 10.
Not being given an exact speed is incorrect and not legal

Any thoughts or comments
 


I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
Approximatley is considered plus or minus 10.
Who's definition is that?
Not being given an exact speed is incorrect and not legal
Not necessarily true. Depending on the statute that you were cited for and as long as it prohibits you from driving in excess of a certain speed, it doesn't realy matter if you are 5 mph faster or 20 mph faster, you would still be considered "speeding".

So what stature (number) were you cited for?
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I am in AZ

I feel photo radar is not legal.
The legislative, executive, and judicial branches of the AZ state government all disagree with you.

Oh, and speeding is not legal, but you don't seem to have a problem with that, right? :rolleyes:
 

Chicagorick

Junior Member
The legislative, executive, and judicial branches of the AZ state government all disagree with you.

Oh, and speeding is not legal, but you don't seem to have a problem with that, right? :rolleyes:
No I do have a problem with me or anyone else speeding. If I was speeding, tell me how fast, not a guess. It is like being a little pregnant, you either are or you are not.

I have my doubts they all disagree. I did not join this site to have arguements, I was looking for informative information. If I have an approximate speed, then I would have an approximate fine.

I supose the constitutional; right of confronting my accuser is also gone since I am being accusedby a machine, not a person.

I guess we will find out soon enough, I have court date tomorrow
 

Chicagorick

Junior Member
Who's definition is that?

Not necessarily true. Depending on the statute that you were cited for and as long as it prohibits you from driving in excess of a certain speed, it doesn't realy matter if you are 5 mph faster or 20 mph faster, you would still be considered "speeding".

So what stature (number) were you cited for?
ARS 28-702.01C

I also read in the AZ Republic that certain States attorneys and Judges will not prosacute as it violates and AZ statute about equal treatment under the law. Using your above comment, I would not get a ticket from the machine at 5 miles over and it appears as much as 9 miles over. Using an approxmate speed I submit they do not have an accurite reading. I got the plus or minus 10 from many years in commerical credit. The word approxmate leaves room for that plus or minus issue. 1 mile an hour less gets me not within the guidelines of taking the picture.
Plus I want to excercise my constional right of confronting my accuser. I can not confront a machine. Some person signed a statement that the machine was calabrated at the beginging of the day. The machine should be calibrated after every picture to ensure accuracy and eliminate approximate speeds
I have court date 12/15 so I guess I will find out
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
I have my doubts they all disagree. I did not join this site to have arguements, I was looking for informative information. If I have an approximate speed, then I would have an approximate fine.
Sorry, but the laws do not conform to the way you think they oughtta be. The way the law is written, there is no difference between 1mph over the limit and 14mph over the limit, so know that the courts will accept the approximate speed regardless of whether or not you feel that is "right".

I supose the constitutional; right of confronting my accuser is also gone since I am being accusedby a machine, not a person.
The "accuser" is the state; it is the state of Arizona that is pressing charges against you, so they are your accuser, and it is them (or, at least, their representative(s)) that you get to face.
 

I_Got_Banned

Senior Member
ARS 28-702.01C
28-702.01.
C.If the maximum speed limit on a public highway in this state is fifty-five miles per hour, a person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed in excess of fifty-five miles per hour on that highway. If the speed at which the person is alleged to have driven as provided in section 28-707, subsection A or the speed at which the court finds the person drove is more than sixty-five miles per hour, the offense is designated as a civil traffic violation and the person is subject to a civil penalty of not more than the amount provided in section 28-1598.​
I also read in the AZ Republic that certain States attorneys and Judges will not prosacute as it violates and AZ statute about equal treatment under the law.
Well, for your sake, lets hope that you get one of those state attorneys and/or judges.

Using your above comment, I would not get a ticket from the machine at 5 miles over and it appears as much as 9 miles over.
OK, if you want to get technical, let me reword my comment to say regardless of how many miles above the speed limit you were driving, so long as the officer can articulate that your alleged speed was in excess of the posted limit, and by further assuming that he/she can articulate the the # of mph above the limit he charged you with falls outside the error rate of the machine with which he measured your speed, then he has likely met the burden of proving your guilt by legal standards.

I got the plus or minus 10 from many years in commerical credit.
Well, then you can argue to the judge that the definition of “approximate” which meets the “commercial credit” standards, should also apply in a court of law in regards to a "speed measurement".

Plus I want to excercise my constional right of confronting my accuser. I can not confront a machine.
And you are well within your constitutional rights to do just that. Just keep in mind that your accuser is the officer who signed the complaint against you (i.e., the citation). It was not signed by the machine.
I can not confront a machine.
And by that same logic, you cannot confront a non camera speed measurement obtained by Radar, Laser, Lidar, speedometer (pace) or whichever type of Speed Measuring Device used in the issuance of a ANY speeding citation; nor can one confront a breathalyzer that measured the BAC in a DUI case; nor can one confront a machine that matched the DNA data to that of a murder suspect... I can go on and on but the point is, and as long as the courts in your state have taken “judicial notice” that those measurements are sufficiently accurate to meet the legal standard of establishing guilt, then your contention that you cannot confront a machine will NOT get you any closer to a "not guilty" verdict.

Some person signed a statement that the machine was calabrated at the beginging of the day. The machine should be calibrated after every picture to ensure accuracy and eliminate approximate speeds
And so long as that method and frequency of calibration meets the procedural standards established pursuant to the NHTSA and the departmental standards established by the agency that issued the citation, then my guess is that the court will be satisfied with THOSE standards rather than with what YOU deem as a sufficient method/frequency of calibration.

Lastly, let me add that I it is not my place to sit here and suggest guilt or establish innocence. Ultimately, that is for the judge to do. You asked for thoughts or comments, and I have posted mine.

I have court date 12/15 so I guess I will find out
Please let us know how it works out! Good luck...
 

Chicagorick

Junior Member
28-702.01.
C.If the maximum speed limit on a public highway in this state is fifty-five miles per hour, a person shall not drive a motor vehicle at a speed in excess of fifty-five miles per hour on that highway. If the speed at which the person is alleged to have driven as provided in section 28-707, subsection A or the speed at which the court finds the person drove is more than sixty-five miles per hour, the offense is designated as a civil traffic violation and the person is subject to a civil penalty of not more than the amount provided in section 28-1598.​

Well, for your sake, lets hope that you get one of those state attorneys and/or judges.


OK, if you want to get technical, let me reword my comment to say regardless of how many miles above the speed limit you were driving, so long as the officer can articulate that your alleged speed was in excess of the posted limit, and by further assuming that he/she can articulate the the # of mph above the limit he charged you with falls outside the error rate of the machine with which he measured your speed, then he has likely met the burden of proving your guilt by legal standards.


Well, then you can argue to the judge that the definition of “approximate” which meets the “commercial credit” standards, should also apply in a court of law in regards to a "speed measurement".


And you are well within your constitutional rights to do just that. Just keep in mind that your accuser is the officer who signed the complaint against you (i.e., the citation). It was not signed by the machine.

And by that same logic, you cannot confront a non camera speed measurement obtained by Radar, Laser, Lidar, speedometer (pace) or whichever type of Speed Measuring Device used in the issuance of a ANY speeding citation; nor can one confront a breathalyzer that measured the BAC in a DUI case; nor can one confront a machine that matched the DNA data to that of a murder suspect... I can go on and on but the point is, and as long as the courts in your state have taken “judicial notice” that those measurements are sufficiently accurate to meet the legal standard of establishing guilt, then your contention that you cannot confront a machine will NOT get you any closer to a "not guilty" verdict.


And so long as that method and frequency of calibration meets the procedural standards established pursuant to the NHTSA and the departmental standards established by the agency that issued the citation, then my guess is that the court will be satisfied with THOSE standards rather than with what YOU deem as a sufficient method/frequency of calibration.

Lastly, let me add that I it is not my place to sit here and suggest guilt or establish innocence. Ultimately, that is for the judge to do. You asked for thoughts or comments, and I have posted mine.


Please let us know how it works out! Good luck...
I did get a pleasant suprise. the state was not prepared to proceed. I moved for dismisal and got it. I still had to pay the $40 fee for the suponea. I can caertainly live with that. I was glad I did not have to test any of my arguements. Think I got lucky. Thanks for your assistance :)
 

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