Bogus school zone ticket - what to do?

[karencpnp]

What is the name of your state? GA
Hi,
Our 16 year old was driving away from a traffic light (which she stopped at), when she was ticketed for doing 45 in a school zone, which was 25 MPH.

The speed limit sign directly in front of her stated 45 MPH. Being a new driver she told the officer, her driver's ed teacher said when they could see the speed limit sign, that they could go at that speed. He agreed with her, except that she was still within the school zone.

The school zone entry sign was probably 1/4 mile behind her at this point. After the above mentioned speed limit sign, there was an additional sign, approximately 400 feet down the road, and not visible from where she was (due to a bend in the road) stating the end of the school zone.

As her high school is beyond this particular school zone (it is for an elementary school), the cops sit and pick off the HS kids every day who drive through, thinking that it is o.k. to go 45.

Our court date is 12/5, and we don't know whether to obtain an attorney or fight this ourselves.

In our particular county, both the end of school zone and speed limit sign are on the same post - which makes sense to me.

Any suggestions would be extremely appreciated,

TIA,

Karen

 

[Zigner]

So, the school zones have a starting point posted, and an ending point posted. Your daughter knew that the zone had started, but had not seen any posted sign stating it had ended.

I suggest you instruct your daughter in the proper rules of the road...


With that said, perhaps your daughter can take some sort of traffic school to remove this ticket from her record. I'm sure someone else in the forum should have more information on that.



Good luck

 

[racer72]

Being a new driver she told the officer, her driver's ed teacher said when they could see the speed limit sign, that they could go at that speed.

Sue the driver's ed teacher for giving our wrong information.

 

[Zigner]

Sue the driver's ed teacher for giving our wrong information.

I'm willing to bet the teacher gave out correct information and the young-un just mis-applied it.

 

[karencpnp]

Thanks for the help - but it's not addressing my needs!

Hi guys,

Thanks for the help. Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly enough. If a speed limit sign is posted across from a traffic light, wouldn't that mean that that is the sign to obey?

As I originally stated, several hundred feet down the road, out of sight of the questionable speed limit sign, is the end school zone.

To me it seems to be a baiting opportunity. As a driver for many years, I too would think that once I saw a speed limit sign, it would be o.k. to resume to that speed.

By the time the begin school zone sign appears, to the point of the speed limit sign is probably close to 1/4 mile. By the time the end school zone sign appears, it's probably 1/2 mile or more; with the speed limit sign in the middle. This is my issue - at what point do you ignore the speed limit sign? And no, there are no flashing red lights at this point. Additionally, the road curves, so there is not a clear line of vision during this entire stretch.

The cop even agreed with her re:her driver's ed teachers statement. But told her to have a nice day, here's your ticket.

My question now is, is it GA state law, or county law that determines where the end of school zone and speed limit signs are placed? In our county, they are on the same sign, and they are much closer to the school. The county she was in, that is not the case. Shouldn't the law relacement of signs be the same regardless of which county you are in?

TIA (again ),

Karen

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

I think your daughter is still in the wrong. Had she been in the area between the 45mph sign and the end of school zone sign, she would have been in the clear. As described, she was not yet to the 45mph sign. I would argue that sign ends the school zone.

I would have her go to court with pictures depicting that the stated speed limit is 45mph and argue the inconsistancy of a speed limit sign 'within' a school zone. The speed limit sign within the school zone is problematic.

The sequence of signs is like this?:

[Speed limit 45mph]
[Begin School Zone 25mph]
[Speed limit 45 mph]
[End School Zone]

Although she will still probably end up paying, hopefully the location of the odd speed limit sign would change.

 

[VeronicaLodge]

please obey all school zone speed limits! our children's lives depend on it. I for one am horrified that your 16 year old daughter is carelessly driving through an elementary school zone not knowing the proper rules of the road and if the police need to be there to make sure all the high schoolers are forced to drive safely and not kill little kids, im very glad!

your subject to this thread says "bogus school zone ticket" but then you admit that she was driving in excess of the school zone limit in the school zone. how is that bogus???

 

[karencpnp]

Thanks Ozark!

I believe that you quite succinctly expressed what I was attempting to - that there is an 'extra' speed limit sign within the school zone that is quite confusing.

I drove to the "scene of the crime" earlier today, and it is even worse than she explained.

Driving past the elementary school there are 1. no signs what-so-ever re:speed (this is in the front of the school); 2. there are yellow lines painted on the ground with signs depicting these as school crossing zones, with, I was surprised to see, NO speed numbers posted; and 3. almost 1/2 mile after the school, which is down a very curvy road, I passed 2 speed limit signs before I finally came to the 'end of school zone' sign.

I thought surely I had missed the end of school zone sign, that is how far down it is. I turned around and drove up and down this street looking for anything that could have been done differently by my daughter.

Ironically, if my daughter was going in the opposite direction, in the exact spot she was in when ticketed, she would not have yet entered the school zone!! (Just to set the scene, picture the letter 'H' - the school would be on the cross-bar, between 2 parallel streets).

This school is located one block in from a four-lane secondary road. It is up on that road (the 4 lane) that the blinking lights are located. Again, this is well before the school, as it should be.

My daughter made the right onto the road the school is located on, going the required 25mph (and probably alot slower, as there is always so much congestion in front of the school); all the time being sure to 'not kill kids' walking to school as was so ridiculously stated by the last post.

Before 'flaming' someone, please make sure you have read the entire post before making ludicrous statements - good info for anyone posting a response to any questions. We are all just trying to help each other, and stupid assumptions, in this case "your 16-yr old daughter carelessly driving through a school zone..." don't help the situation.

If my initial post was read without hysterics, it would have been evident that she was past the school when she was ticketed. Meaning, no kids were around!

It was AFTER she was well past the school, and AFTER she past the speed limit sign that she did what she thought was right.

Again, as an adult driver, I would have done the same thing.

If she is truly wrong, i.e. she should have waited for the end-school zone sign to resume the posted speed, o.k., she deserves the ticket. My issue is, why put 2 speed limit signs between passing the school and the end school zone sign? There can only be one right answer. That is all I am attempting to find out!

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

Print a street map and note the locations of all the speed limit signs and school zone markings. Put distances between them if you can. (Google earth has this capability.) Note that the size of the school zone is irrelevant. Sometimes the school zone is extended to allow for all the students who walk. The problem is the regular speed limit signs within the school zone.

I would also publicize this issue with a letter to the school board and local newspapers/television stations.

 

[Zigner]

Print a street map and note the locations of all the speed limit signs and school zone markings. Put distances between them if you can. (Google earth has this capability.) Note that the size of the school zone is irrelevant. Sometimes the school zone is extended to allow for all the students who walk. The problem is the regular speed limit signs within the school zone.

I would also publicize this issue with a letter to the school board and local newspapers/television stations.

One other piece of advice - take video of the area as well. Just make sure you take something on which you can play that video in court for the judge.

 

[karencpnp]

Thanks for the help with my daughter's ticket!

Thanks to everyone who recommended bringing pictures and videos to the court. Am I allowed to do this on the first visit? Or do I need to ask for a continuance or what-ever?

I was recently nailed for speeding with the aforementioned 16-year old in the car - I've still not heard the end of that one! That was the first time, ever, that I was even stopped in the 30+ years I've been driving. I went to court, and they pleaded me down to no points, just pay the fine. I asked if they wanted to hear my story, and they said no - just pay the fine.

Since this was a little GA town, they told me the ticket would be lost within the town's building - after I paid for it!

Less than a month later, my daughter got her ticket - I can't stand this. I feel as if our family is single-handedly supporting various towns in GA! (We won't even mention our 22 yr. old who just admitted, oh yeah, he just got a ticket also - where did we go so wrong with our family of scofflaws

Before everyone gets all riled up, I am making a joke - yes, it is a serious matter - so, chill out.

When I received my ticket, there was no opportunity to say anything other than guilty. Will we have an opportunity to show pictures?

Is this something that we should be getting a lawyer over? Both my ticket and our son's were dismissed without points, as they were first time offenses. Do they look at this more seriously as it occured in a school zone? Or are they just out for the money?

Since my ticket was for 25+ over the speed limit, and GA law calls for 4 points or more, I phoned a few attorneys, who pretty much had me in hand-cuffs if I didn't hire one of them.

I went to court on my day, dressed professionally of course (it was truly amazing how some people treated the court with such disrespect by the way they were dressed); and was side-tracked to a solicitor's office who 'cut me my deal'. The judge later called me, asked if I agreed with the deal, I agreed; he said pay the fine ($494.00) and have a nice day.

If I had hired an attorney, it would have cost me an additional $450-650.

So, my question is - do I spend the extra, or do the courts make deals with everyone?

TIA, Again,
Karen

 

[>Charlotte<]

I think Zigner had it right the first time. When one enters a school zone, there is a sign indicating the beginning of that zone. Until the "end zone" sign is reached, it can be presumed that you are still within the school zone and must obey that lower limit.

Although I really don't know how it works, I would expect there to be some kind of DOT standard as to the placement of speed limit signs (every half mile? every mile?) and that just happens to be where that particular 45 mph sign is supposed to be located, which just happens to be within the range of the school zone.

I'm not even sure why the 45 mph sign matters. She hadn't seen the "end school zone" sign yet, so the 45 mph sign should have been entirely disregarded.

Am I missing something?

And I see that we're kind of past that now, and moving onto "should I get a lawyer"--sorry, but I'm still stuck on this.

 

[VeronicaLodge]

I'm stuck on it to Clt. and now we see that mother got a speeding ticket, and other daughter got a speeding ticket, nowhere does she claim none of them were speeding, yet its the GA town trying to steal their money. TRY DRIVING THE SPEED LIMIT! sorry, this just annoys me to no end.