CA Speed Trap Law Question

[davew128]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Am I right in my understanding of the speed trap law that if someone is cited for speeding and the method of determining speed was pacing or visual estimation, that the speed trap law does not apply, regardless if an engineering and traffic survey hasn't been performed?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Would the officer's speedometer qualify as an electronic device used to measure speed?

 

[Hey There]

Ball is in your court

davew128

Speedometers are usually electronic in late-model cars. A pulse generator (or tach generator) installed in the transmission measures the vehicle's speed. Electric or magnetic pulse signals are either translated into an electronic read-out or used to manipulate a magnetic gauge assembly Source:speedometer: Definition from Answers.com.(Google search window brings up this website with posted information on speedometers)
Speeding Ticket--Fighting or Plea Bargaining (Google this) has information on a cited driver"s rights, how to plead and how to contest a traffic ticket.

Best Regards,
Hey There

 

[JIMinCA]

40803 (b) In any prosecution under this code of a charge involving the speed of a vehicle, where enforcement involves the use of radar or other electronic devices which measure the speed of moving objects, the prosecution shall establish, as part of its prima facie case, that the evidence or testimony presented is not based upon a
speedtrap as defined in paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section
40802.

A speedometer IS an electronic device used to measure speed of moving objects. Therefore, the burden is on the PROSECUTION to show that a speedtrap did or did not exist.

 

[FlyingRon]

I remember when speedometers weren't electronic devices.

 

[JIMinCA]

I remember when speedometers weren't electronic devices.

Well... let me correct myself. In my town, one cop has a motorcycle. It is a Suzuki DR400 (a street legal dirt bike). His speedometer is NOT an electronic device (I think). Other than him... I think they are electronic.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I remember when speedometers weren't electronic devices.

And my guess is when the speed trap law in California was enacted (anybody know when it was enacted?), speedometers were of the mechanical type and that the "electronic device" term (see C.V.C. 40802 below) was in reference to RADAR &/or LASER (not even sure if LASER existed at that time)...

Also, even the most modern speedometer is part mechanical.

The Pulse Generator which “Hey There” mentioned can also be referred to as a speed sensor/Vehicle Speed Sensor/(VSS). It is a magnetic pick-up sensor that measures the rotation of the transmission output shaft or the ring gear on the differential which is unmistakably a mechanical movement. As the magnet passes over the sensor, the magnetic force generates a voltage signal which is in turn sent to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The PCM then determines the corresponding vehicle speed and signals the speedometer.

California Vehicle Code Section 40802. (a) A "speed trap" is either of the following:
(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.
(2) A particular section of a highway with a prima facie speed limit that is provided by this code or by local ordinance under subparagraph (A) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 22352, or established under Section 22354, 22357, 22358, or 22358.3, if that prima facie speed limit is not justified by an engineering and traffic survey conducted within five years prior to the date of the alleged violation, and enforcement of the speed limit involves the use of radar or any other electronic device that measures the speed of moving objects. This paragraph does not. apply to a local street, road, or school zone.

 

[davew128]

Ok, so in this instance its 64 in a 45 and I was cited under 22350, officer stated he paced me, and the section of road in question (CA-274 in San Diego) definitely qualifies as a hghway (people familiar with that road will know exactly where I sped), so I guess I need to check for the existence of a survey and determine what to do at that point.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

C.V.C. Section: 22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

What that basically is saying is this:

For the prosecution to meet the burden of proving your guilt -beyond a reasonable doubt-, they would have to prove 2 things:

1. That you were in fact driving 64mph - In his testimony, the officer will describe the method with which he "paced" you then he will offer/introduce into evidence (by way of a calibration certificate) showing that his vehicle’s speedometer had been recently (within a reasonable period of time) been calibrated.

2. a. That (at least one of) the conditions (underlined in 22350 above) at the time when you were cited constituted a situation that made driving at 64mph in 45 zone neither reasonable nor prudent. Or

2. b. That your driving at that speed constituted a situation that did in fact endanger people or property...

Also, they still must produce a Traffic and Engineering Survey... If they do, and if it appears that the 45mph speed limit is in fact justified by that Survey, then the burden of proof shifts over to you where if you want any chance at a "not guilty" or a dismissal, you have to prove that your driving 64 in a legitimate 45mph zone was still "reasonable and prudent" and that you did NOT endanger the safety of persons or property...

Feel free to post your version/description of the condition that are listed in 22350...

Also, pay special attention to any notes that the officer might have written on the citation. Keep in mind that the Judge can see that so if there is anything that might be negative... I would have an answer in case the Judge decides to question you or chew you out about it. You should also post any notations the officer made on the citation.

In addition to one, maybe two notations he might have made on your copy, chances are he had a bunch of notes and reminders that he wrote on his copy...

Personally, I would start on an "Informal Discovery Request". . . Most importantly, get a copy of the officer's notes. (His own personal notes/his version of what "the weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and whether you exhibited any behavior which may have suggested to him (& in his "professional" opinion) that your driving at that speed endangered the safety of persons or property. That basically is one way he can burry you but if you go to court knowing what he's gonna say... You are better prepared.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

And my guess is when the speed trap law in California was enacted (anybody know when it was enacted?)

Let me answer my own question... 40802 enacted on August 3, 1995...

 

[davew128]

I think the it will rest on the existence of a T&E survey then. It was 10:30 PM, on a dry, two lane divided road, with very light traffic, which is about three miles from the traffic court, so I am certain all parties will be familiar with that stretch of road. In all honesty, it is difficult to not speed on that road because it is a bit of a canyon, so one would have to be riding their brakes to not speed.

Officer asked me if I knew what the posted limit was, which I ansered yes. Also asked me if I knew how fast I was going, which I said no and also asked if I knew he was behind me, which was also a no. He thanked me for my honesty, but I don't see my answers as incriminating or as an admission to speeding.

No animosity here, and a relatively painless encounter.

 

[JIMinCA]

I think it will hinge on your ability to convince the court (who will likely be very biased against you) that the speedometer IS an electronic device and that 40802 comes into play. If you overcome that, the rest should be easy.

 

[davew128]

Look what a quick Google found: =http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer#Electronic
Electronic
Many modern speedometers are electronic. A rotation sensor, usually mounted on the rear of the transmission, delivers a series of electronic pulses whose frequency corresponds to the rotational speed of the driveshaft. The sensor is typically a toothed metal disk positioned between a coil and a magnetic field sensor. As the disk turns, the teeth pass between the two, each time producing a pulse in the sensor as they affect the strength of the magnetic field it is measuring.[1]

A computer converts the pulses to a speed and displays this speed on an electronically-controlled, analog-style needle or a digital display, the latter of which is more common nowadays. Pulse counts may also be used to increment the odometer.

Another early form of electronic speedometer relies upon the interaction between a precision watch mechanism and a mechanical pulsator driven by the car's wheel or transmission. The watch mechanism endeavors to push the speedometer pointer toward zero, while the vehicle-driven pulsator tries to push it toward infinity. The position of the speedometer pointer reflects the relative magnitudes of the outputs of the two mechanisms.

Now will a judge accept that? We shall see..

 

[davew128]

Hmmm

Got the traffic and engineering survey today, which is as of the date of the ticket is 6 years, 11 months and 6 days old. 85th percentile for the stretch of road in question is 52mph, but oddly enough it was knocked down to 45 instead of 50. The mean speed listed is 48, I'm thinking maybe that was the reason for the lower speed. Also somewhat odd is that the opposite direction had an 85th percentile of 42 but was bumped UP to 45. Notes for the authority for setting of posted speed 6-10 mph below the 85th percentile merely refer to Caltrans Manual and CVC 22358.5.

Assuming I can't get it thrown out on speed trap grounds, I think the ticket itself might get knocked down. The roadway where I allegedly sped is a four lane divided road with no side streets, driveways, no allowed parking, sidewalks, or pedestrians, and of course it was at 10:30 pm, dry, clear visibility with next to no traffic. That may or may not justify the observed speed of 64 as I think its safe to say the car was at no time a danger to person or property7. I'm merely thinking that the posted limit itself is not justified by the survey and certainly the conditions and what should have been 50 mph are a lot more favorable than simply 64 in a 45.

Or I could simply be wishing....

 

[JIMinCA]

If you don't get it dismissed for the speed trap, you simply need to appeal.

By the way.... I'm assuming you were charged with 22350... is that right?

 

[davew128]

If you don't get it dismissed for the speed trap, you simply need to appeal.

By the way.... I'm assuming you were charged with 22350... is that right?

Yes 22350. I'm just thinking in terms of an initial trial of winning based on safe and reasonable speed and not exceeding maximum speed law, in the likely event the trial judge doesn't dismiss based speed trap. Nothing wrong with having two defenses ready at hand.