I live in Chattanooga, TN. I recently got a ticket in the mail for speeding, caught by a camera. I thought that there had to be a sign notifying the drives that speed was being checked by detection devices to get a ticket for speeding in this manor. Is this not the case? There are definitely no signs warning of the camera in the area.
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Camera Speeding Ticket without Sign Notice...
- Thread starter FreeBaGeL
- Start date
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Not at all, I just thought I'd heard there were different laws for automatic detection devices. Like for instance, isn't there a law limiting the number of tickets you can get from it in a certain amount of time so you don't suddently get 5 tickets in the mail because you unknowingly sped down the same road every day and didn't get any notice of it until you had done it 5 times? Just thought I'd heard there was something about fair warning with automated devices as well, especially since this particular ticket (I've had a few fair ones in the past that I had no problem with) was such a crock.
Anyway, I found out from the city-data forums of my city that this particular trap wasn't a permanent camera, but rather a camera van that they move around the city and park in different places. It was a wide open 4 lane highway with nothing around, at the bottom of a hill, with a 40mph speed limit. They must have sent out 60,000 tickets that day with that spot. Pretty ridiculous that these cities use these things as a revenue source disguised as "safety enforcement". If anything having that absurdly low speed limit there only adds danger because you get the occasional car that actually takes it to heart and tries to motor on through at 40 while the flow of traffic weaves around them at the 55+ speed it should be there.
The Occultist
Senior Member
There is also no limit on the number of tickets you can receive.
If everybody was going the limit, then that one car actually abiding by the law would not longer be a safety hazard.
Zigner
Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Are you suggesting that people have so little control over their vehicle that they would speed down the same road 5 days in a row without knowing it?
Sounds to me like the bus might be a better option for that person...
Last edited:
johndunning
Junior Member
good website
Check Home - Fighting Red Light Camera Tickets - excellent website with lot of details.
Yes, legally they are required to post the signs, etc. - at least in CA. Check your state's vehicle code.
Check Home - Fighting Red Light Camera Tickets - excellent website with lot of details.
Yes, legally they are required to post the signs, etc. - at least in CA. Check your state's vehicle code.
Zigner
Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Our OP's not IN California. If you don't have something specific to TN, then don't confuse the issue!
I_Got_Banned
Senior Member
I found this regarding signs notifying drivers of RED light cameras... Nothing found for speed enfrocement though... You might want to check the TN statutes for something similar:
However, and even if you can find the specific code relating to automated speed enforcement, if the speed camera is not permanently installed (meaning it was a parked van, which by now, is long gone) on that stretch of the roadway then your argument that there was no sign will be very difficult to prove. Just because you didn't see the signs does not mean they were not there and unless you can get the officer to admit that signs were not posted, your argument is not going to work in your favor.
55-8-198. Citations based on surveillance cameras. —
(a) A traffic citation that is based solely upon evidence obtained from a surveillance camera that has been installed to enforce or monitor traffic violations shall be considered a nonmoving traffic violation.
(b) An employee of the applicable law enforcement office shall review video evidence from a traffic light signal monitoring system and make a determination as to whether a violation has occurred. If a determination is made that a violation has occurred, a notice of violation or a citation shall be sent by first class mail to the registered owner of the vehicle that was captured by the traffic light signal monitoring system. A notice of violation or citation shall allow for payment of the traffic violation or citation within thirty (30) days of the mailing of the notice. No additional penalty or other costs shall be assessed for nonpayment of a traffic violation or citation that is based solely on evidence obtained from a surveillance camera installed to enforce or monitor traffic violations, unless a second notice is sent by first class mail to the registered owner of the motor vehicle and the second notice provides for an additional thirty (30) days for payment of the violation or citation.
(c) (1) Effective July 1, 2009, a state agency or political subdivision of the state that installs, owns, operates or maintains a traffic-control signal light located in an intersection that employs a surveillance camera for the enforcement or monitoring of traffic violations shall ensure that:
(A) The surveillance camera does not identify as a violation of § 55-8-110(a)(3), or any municipal law or ordinance that mirrors, substantially duplicates or incorporates by cross-reference the language of § 55-8-110(a)(3), any vehicle that legally entered the intersection during the green or yellow intervals in accordance with § 55-8-110(a)(1) and (2); and
(B) Appropriate signage is located not less than five hundred feet (500') but not more than one thousand feet (1,000') in advance of the intersection informing drivers as to the presence of surveillance cameras at the approaching intersection.
(2) If the state agency or political division of the state violates subdivision (c)(1), then any traffic citation based solely on evidence generated by the surveillance camera shall be deemed to be invalid.
(d) The following vehicles are exempt from receiving a notice of violation:
(1) Emergency vehicles with active emergency lights;
(2) Vehicles moving through the intersection to avoid or clear the way for a marked emergency vehicle;
(3) Vehicles under police escort; and
(4) Vehicles in a funeral procession.
(e) (1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection (e), the registered owner of the motor vehicle shall be responsible for payment of any notice of violation or citation issued as the result of a traffic light monitoring system.
(2) An owner of a vehicle shall not be responsible for the violation if, on or before the designated court date, the owner furnishes the court an affidavit stating the name and address of the person or entity that leased, rented or otherwise had care, custody or control of the motor vehicle at the time of the violation.
(3) If a motor vehicle or its plates were stolen at the time of the alleged violation, the registered owner must provide an affidavit denying the owner was an operator and provide a certified copy of the police report reflecting such theft.
(4) An affidavit alleging theft of a motor vehicle or its plates must be provided by the registered owner of a vehicle receiving a notice of violation within thirty (30) days of the mailing date of the notice of violation.
(f) No surveillance cameras shall be permitted on federal interstate highways except for Smart Way cameras, other intelligent transportation system cameras or, when employees of the department or construction workers are present, surveillance cameras used to enforce or monitor traffic violations within work zones designated by the department of transportation; provided, that the cameras shall be operated only by a state entity.
[Acts 2008, ch. 962, § 1; 2009, ch. 389, §§ 1, 2.]
(a) A traffic citation that is based solely upon evidence obtained from a surveillance camera that has been installed to enforce or monitor traffic violations shall be considered a nonmoving traffic violation.
(b) An employee of the applicable law enforcement office shall review video evidence from a traffic light signal monitoring system and make a determination as to whether a violation has occurred. If a determination is made that a violation has occurred, a notice of violation or a citation shall be sent by first class mail to the registered owner of the vehicle that was captured by the traffic light signal monitoring system. A notice of violation or citation shall allow for payment of the traffic violation or citation within thirty (30) days of the mailing of the notice. No additional penalty or other costs shall be assessed for nonpayment of a traffic violation or citation that is based solely on evidence obtained from a surveillance camera installed to enforce or monitor traffic violations, unless a second notice is sent by first class mail to the registered owner of the motor vehicle and the second notice provides for an additional thirty (30) days for payment of the violation or citation.
(c) (1) Effective July 1, 2009, a state agency or political subdivision of the state that installs, owns, operates or maintains a traffic-control signal light located in an intersection that employs a surveillance camera for the enforcement or monitoring of traffic violations shall ensure that:
(A) The surveillance camera does not identify as a violation of § 55-8-110(a)(3), or any municipal law or ordinance that mirrors, substantially duplicates or incorporates by cross-reference the language of § 55-8-110(a)(3), any vehicle that legally entered the intersection during the green or yellow intervals in accordance with § 55-8-110(a)(1) and (2); and
(B) Appropriate signage is located not less than five hundred feet (500') but not more than one thousand feet (1,000') in advance of the intersection informing drivers as to the presence of surveillance cameras at the approaching intersection.
(2) If the state agency or political division of the state violates subdivision (c)(1), then any traffic citation based solely on evidence generated by the surveillance camera shall be deemed to be invalid.
(d) The following vehicles are exempt from receiving a notice of violation:
(1) Emergency vehicles with active emergency lights;
(2) Vehicles moving through the intersection to avoid or clear the way for a marked emergency vehicle;
(3) Vehicles under police escort; and
(4) Vehicles in a funeral procession.
(e) (1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection (e), the registered owner of the motor vehicle shall be responsible for payment of any notice of violation or citation issued as the result of a traffic light monitoring system.
(2) An owner of a vehicle shall not be responsible for the violation if, on or before the designated court date, the owner furnishes the court an affidavit stating the name and address of the person or entity that leased, rented or otherwise had care, custody or control of the motor vehicle at the time of the violation.
(3) If a motor vehicle or its plates were stolen at the time of the alleged violation, the registered owner must provide an affidavit denying the owner was an operator and provide a certified copy of the police report reflecting such theft.
(4) An affidavit alleging theft of a motor vehicle or its plates must be provided by the registered owner of a vehicle receiving a notice of violation within thirty (30) days of the mailing date of the notice of violation.
(f) No surveillance cameras shall be permitted on federal interstate highways except for Smart Way cameras, other intelligent transportation system cameras or, when employees of the department or construction workers are present, surveillance cameras used to enforce or monitor traffic violations within work zones designated by the department of transportation; provided, that the cameras shall be operated only by a state entity.
[Acts 2008, ch. 962, § 1; 2009, ch. 389, §§ 1, 2.]
However, and even if you can find the specific code relating to automated speed enforcement, if the speed camera is not permanently installed (meaning it was a parked van, which by now, is long gone) on that stretch of the roadway then your argument that there was no sign will be very difficult to prove. Just because you didn't see the signs does not mean they were not there and unless you can get the officer to admit that signs were not posted, your argument is not going to work in your favor.
Speed limits aren't randomly set nor are they based on the municipalities need to generate revenue. It takes a little more than that and from a procedural stand point, it does not even relate to generating revenue. Here is the statute that lists the requirements for how speed limits are established...
55-8-153. Establishment of speed zones. —
(a) The department of transportation is empowered to lower the speed limits prescribed in § 55-8-152 in business, urban or residential districts, or at any congested area, dangerous intersection or whenever and wherever the department shall determine, upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation, that the public safety requires a lower speed limit.
(b) Appropriate signs giving notice of the lower speed limit shall be erected by the department at such places or put on the highway where the prescribed speed limits are effective.
(c) (1) (A) The legislative authorities of municipalities shall possess the power to prescribe lower speed limits on highways designated as state highways in their respective jurisdictions when, on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation, it is shown that the public safety requires a lower speed limit.
(B) Engineering and traffic investigations used to establish special speed zone locations and speed limits by municipalities on state highways shall be made in accordance with established traffic engineering practices and in a manner that conforms to the Tennessee manual on uniform traffic control devices (MUTCD). The investigations shall be documented and documentation shall be maintained by the jurisdiction performing or sponsoring the investigation.(C) All signs, signals and other forms of public notification of the speed limits, road hazards and other traffic conditions shall comply with the MUTCD.
(2) The legislative bodies of municipalities shall also possess the power to prescribe lower speed limits within certain areas or zones, or on designated highways, avenues or streets that are not designated as state highways in their respective jurisdictions, and to erect appropriate signs and traffic signals.
(d) The legislative body of any county, except the legislative bodies of any counties having a commission form of government, has the power to prescribe such lower speed limits as it may deem appropriate on any road being maintained by the county and shall erect appropriate signs and traffic signals. In those counties having a commission form of government, the board of commissioners has the power prescribed in this section.
(e) A violation of the speed limits established by the department pursuant to subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, punishable by fine only, when employees of the department or construction workers are present. The department, or its agents, are directed to indicate the presence of workers or department employees with signs with flashing amber lights; provided, that this penalty is applicable in highway construction zones only to those speeding violations that have been detected by radar, infrared or similar detection devices. The amount of the fine imposed pursuant to subsection (a) for violations that occur in work zones where the speed limits have been reduced by the department and when employees of the department or construction workers are present shall be not less than two hundred fifty dollars ($250).
[Acts 1955, ch. 329, § 52; impl. am. Acts 1959, ch. 9, § 3; Acts 1965, ch. 94, § 2; 1972, ch. 829, § 7; 1976, ch. 491, § 1; T.C.A., § 59-853; Acts 1981, ch. 261, § 12; 1995, ch. 389, § 2; 1996, ch. 609, § 2; 2007, ch. 450, § 2.]
(a) The department of transportation is empowered to lower the speed limits prescribed in § 55-8-152 in business, urban or residential districts, or at any congested area, dangerous intersection or whenever and wherever the department shall determine, upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation, that the public safety requires a lower speed limit.
(b) Appropriate signs giving notice of the lower speed limit shall be erected by the department at such places or put on the highway where the prescribed speed limits are effective.
(c) (1) (A) The legislative authorities of municipalities shall possess the power to prescribe lower speed limits on highways designated as state highways in their respective jurisdictions when, on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation, it is shown that the public safety requires a lower speed limit.
(B) Engineering and traffic investigations used to establish special speed zone locations and speed limits by municipalities on state highways shall be made in accordance with established traffic engineering practices and in a manner that conforms to the Tennessee manual on uniform traffic control devices (MUTCD). The investigations shall be documented and documentation shall be maintained by the jurisdiction performing or sponsoring the investigation.(C) All signs, signals and other forms of public notification of the speed limits, road hazards and other traffic conditions shall comply with the MUTCD.
(2) The legislative bodies of municipalities shall also possess the power to prescribe lower speed limits within certain areas or zones, or on designated highways, avenues or streets that are not designated as state highways in their respective jurisdictions, and to erect appropriate signs and traffic signals.
(d) The legislative body of any county, except the legislative bodies of any counties having a commission form of government, has the power to prescribe such lower speed limits as it may deem appropriate on any road being maintained by the county and shall erect appropriate signs and traffic signals. In those counties having a commission form of government, the board of commissioners has the power prescribed in this section.
(e) A violation of the speed limits established by the department pursuant to subsection (a) is a Class B misdemeanor, punishable by fine only, when employees of the department or construction workers are present. The department, or its agents, are directed to indicate the presence of workers or department employees with signs with flashing amber lights; provided, that this penalty is applicable in highway construction zones only to those speeding violations that have been detected by radar, infrared or similar detection devices. The amount of the fine imposed pursuant to subsection (a) for violations that occur in work zones where the speed limits have been reduced by the department and when employees of the department or construction workers are present shall be not less than two hundred fifty dollars ($250).
[Acts 1955, ch. 329, § 52; impl. am. Acts 1959, ch. 9, § 3; Acts 1965, ch. 94, § 2; 1972, ch. 829, § 7; 1976, ch. 491, § 1; T.C.A., § 59-853; Acts 1981, ch. 261, § 12; 1995, ch. 389, § 2; 1996, ch. 609, § 2; 2007, ch. 450, § 2.]
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