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Can a visual estimate be the only confirmation of speed?

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K

kmsweb

Guest
What is the name of your state? Michigan

I had my informal hearing yesterday morning.

My question is, can a visual estimate be the only evidence needed to find you responsible for speeding? I thought that the officer had to verify the visual estimate with the radar.

I started preparing to fight my case from the day the ticket was issued. I have been driving for 10 years and have never been pulled over for speeding. I have zero points on my record. I believe I was going the speed limit and was the wrong car targeted. I was the first car up the hill on the highway and found an officer waiting, speed trapping, hidden from my sight behind the incline of the hill, he quickly threw on his lights, giving me time to stop adjacent to him, on the shoulder.
I prepared a public records request and sent it certified to the police chief. Nearly a month later, the Friday before my hearing, I still had not recieved my requested materials, so I called and made it clear to them that I was coming to pick up the paperwork from their Records Beareau. I did so, and while I was there, I noticed that they could not provide me with a certificate of the speed measuring device used. According to them "a copy did not exist". I spoke to the Sgt. in charge of putting the paperwork together and he said he "didnt know what I was talking about". (Good thing I knew what I was talking about.) The Sgt. also tried to discourage me from fighting the ticket, saying it was generous of the officer to give me a 50 in a 45 when I was actually doing 66. He had a bad attitude, and made me wonder what he was hiding.
My main defence, before this issue arose, was about the apparent limited visibility from the officers point of view (hilly terrain, and interference from other vehicles around me, and on the over passes).
With all of my research, I found that the certification of the speed measuring device is required in Michigan, by the M.S.M.T.F., for any readings from the speed measurement device to be admissible in court. The morning of my hearing I finally got in touch with the State Police Sgt. that handles the M.S.M.T.F., which in turn verified that there was not a certificate.
I noticed that the Judge was quickly finding everyone "responsible" that was called before I was. All of the tickets were from the same officer that pulled me over.
Then it was my turn. I had a file full of eveidence, pictures, documents, ect., and had printed out everything I would say ahead of time. I noticed the judge did not have much interest in any of my evidence. However, I did prove that the radar reading could not be used against me. But it baffled me when the judge quickly found me responsible for 50 in a 45 due to his visual estimate. I thought that the visual estimate had to be verified with the radar gun?? How can someone tell you how fast you are going in their head, and especially tell the difference of 45 m.p.h. and 50 m.p.h.
I am obviously appealing, and thinking of hiring an attorney.
I feel my testimony may have encouraged some harrasment from the police officers at the department. Later that evening, after my hearing, my husband was pulled over in my car. I had already warned him to be careful while driving it, fearing I may have really pissed them off. The officer sped up behind him on a 25 m.p.h. road to pull him over. He called me while he was waiting for the officer to come back to the car, saying that he wasn't told why he was pulled over, and that he knew he wasn't speeding. The officer let him go with a warning for "not yeilding to on coming traffic". He told me he seen the officer, and had plenty of time to pull onto the 25 m.p.h. road.
Thanks for taking the time to read. Any advice about visual estimates would be appreciated.
 
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JETX

Senior Member
An officer can issue a citation based on any reason that he might have of the offense. This could be 'clocking', radar, or even a guess.

I have seen cases where an officer only visually estimated a speed and when testifying his 'estimate' was allowed due to the officers experience in the field.

The issue you face is how to show the court that the officer was NOT correct in issuing your ticket.
 

carltonlegal

Junior Member
Important

In case anybody still reads this, Know that you absolutely can be CONVICTED based soley on the visual speed estimation of a police officer. Now they wont set up a speed trap where the officer only relies on the estimatoin, but say you beat the evidence presented by a laser or radar, a Traffic court hearing officer who dosent know **** from chinola bout standards of evidence or conviction will find you guilty based on the initial estimation IF YOU DONT CHALLENGE IT. There are, however, ways to counter act this. First most states have a provision in the vehicle code that says something to the effect of ALL TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS MUST PROVEN BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Make sure you cite this and bring it up if that is the prosecutions only evidence.

Secondly, if you want to get technical, ask the officer the distance between which he made the estimation and the time frame in which he made the estimation. If dosent give an exact number, like say he says between 20-30 feet and between 20-30 seconds, go with the shortest distance with longest time, as they will lead to the slowest speed, and plug them into a simple DISTANCE/TIME formula with a calculator, and the result will likely be far from what the officer said he estimated. even if he knows where your going with this, he may try to give you exact, low numbers, in which case the result would be much faster than what you could have possibly been going. You see, the chances of him even giving figures that are close to the speed he testified to are quite slim. Also remember that these people are legal experts and are probably not going to be math experts and thus will have little chance of disproving your calculations, provided they are all correct.

Third, Request his documentation as to his qualification as a valid estimator of speed. If the case has gotten this far, he will probably have it, but this is not important. Remember that to pass such qualifications the instructor teaching the officers would need a speed reading device to verify their estimations, so you simply request the documentation proving the device used in the training was accurate. The odds of him having the foresight to bring such documentation are somewhere in the neighborhood of one in a million, so it completely undermines his cedentials as a certified estimator of speed

DON NOT LET THESE *******S TAKE OUR MONEY!
 
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adam_12

Member
My question is, can a visual estimate be the only evidence needed to find you responsible for speeding?


I am obviously appealing, and thinking of hiring an attorney.

I feel my testimony may have encouraged some harrasment from the police officers at the department. .
Go for it. I would fight this.

An officer can issue a citation based on any reason that he might have of the offense.
She didn't ask what an officer needs to issue a citation...as we know that can do it for good reasons, bad reasons, made up reasons, etc, etc. She was asking about getting convicted.
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
Go for it. I would fight this.



She didn't ask what an officer needs to issue a citation...as we know that can do it for good reasons, bad reasons, made up reasons, etc, etc. She was asking about getting convicted.
Oh dear lord, check the date on the OP; it's over SEVEN YEARS OLD! Whatever decision he was going to make has already been made.
 

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