careless driving...on MY property

[john@dyno]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arkansas

I own and operate a shop that builds and works on racecars..
At times ,we have to "test" suspension or traction modifications on a part of OUR property next to our building..
Several weeks ago I recieved a careless driving ticket for spinning tires in my car on my property.The vehicle never moved,even the officer in court agreed that the vehicle was perfectly still while spinning the tires and witnessed no speeding or otherwise hazzardous actions.The officer however did tell an inaccurate and unbelievable version of the event...Which even the prosecuter did not seem to believe.To everybodies supprise the judge ruled guilty..

I am aware that such tickets CAN be given on private property(such as the mall,McDonalds parking lot ect..) But what about MY property where I NEED to be able to do my JOB..

Go-kart tracks, race tracks and other buisness' regularly violate these "catch all" laws on their property as well....

I'm going to appeal this decision.....any advice PLEASE.

thankyou,john

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arkansas

I own and operate a shop that builds and works on racecars..
At times ,we have to "test" suspension or traction modifications on a part of OUR property next to our building..
Several weeks ago I recieved a careless driving ticket for spinning tires in my car on my property.The vehicle never moved,even the officer in court agreed that the vehicle was perfectly still while spinning the tires and witnessed no speeding or otherwise hazzardous actions.The officer however did tell an inaccurate and unbelievable version of the event...Which even the prosecuter did not seem to believe.To everybodies supprise the judge ruled guilty..

I am aware that such tickets CAN be given on private property(such as the mall,McDonalds parking lot ect..) But what about MY property where I NEED to be able to do my JOB..

Go-kart tracks, race tracks and other buisness' regularly violate these "catch all" laws on their property as well....

I'm going to appeal this decision.....any advice PLEASE.


**A: what was the actual infraction wording on the ticket?

 

[john@dyno]

Careless driving...
During the trial the officer stated that a "cloud of smoke" obstructed the view of a nearby street,posing a hazzard to drivers.Then he said that I could have lost control at any second and shot out into traffic...There WAS NO CLOUD OF SMOKE....the tires spun for approximately 3 seconds and the officer agreed on 3 seconds. My vehicle was 40+feet away from the street facing the other way (the officer told the judge that I was facing the street then turned around afterward.)
When the prosecuter ask the officer what provision of the careless driving law I was citied for he couldn't answer..He said "I went home and read up on it that evening,but couldn't remember" at the trial...The prosecuter threw up his hands and dropped his head,Then told the officer "you're supposed to know that BEFORE you write a ticket".

The prosecuter ask the officer if I was :
1.speeding....no,he never moved,said the officer.
2.swerving close to other cars......no ,he was in the parkinglot by himself,said the officer.
3.did he appear to be in control of the vehicle.....well I was'nt in the car,I cant say..the officer said.
4.Then what was your reason for the stop.....The cloud of smoke ,and he COULD have lost control,even though he was sitting still the whole time..said the officer

This was the reason I was shocked to hear a guilty verdict...

Again there was NO cloud of smoke and the vehicle was facing perpendicular to the street in the other direction at 40+ feet away..
The officer lied to cover his butt,and I did not have a witness at the trial.I have a customer who saw the whole thing but felt like i wouldn't need him for such a bs ticket..My customer said he'd testify at the appeal if needed...I thought for a second that the officer would lie to such a degree that i would have to have a witness to back the truth..

Can the witness be brought to testify at an appeal??

 

[Curt581]

At times ,we have to "test" suspension or traction modifications on a part of OUR property next to our building..

That's nonsense. Test your work at the track. A test on a parking lot surface compared to a rubber coated starting line surface wouldn't be valid anyway. You're blowing smoke (figuratively).

You can't crank your stereo at 2AM nor can you parade across your lawn wearing nothing but a pair of socks just because it's "your private property" either.

I am aware that such tickets CAN be given on private property(such as the mall,McDonalds parking lot ect..) But what about MY property where I NEED to be able to do my JOB..

You don't "need to do your job" in such a way that it would endanger the public or aggravate your neighbors when an actual race track is available to you.

Go-kart tracks, race tracks and other buisness' regularly violate these "catch all" laws on their property as well....

Tracks are zoned and approved for this activity. Is your parking lot?

I thought not.

Licensed and insured drag strips certainly don't allow race cars to perform burn-outs in their parking lots. Anyone that did would get promptly booted out. Who are you trying to fool?

I'm going to appeal this decision.....any advice PLEASE.

My advice is to save the money you'd spend on legal fees. An appeal would overturn the judges ruling only in the event there was a legal procedural error made. The appeals court won't rule in your favor just because you didn't like or agree with the first judge's decision.

 

[john@dyno]

That's nonsense. Test your work at the track. A test on a parking lot surface compared to a rubber coated starting line surface wouldn't be valid anyway. You're blowing smoke (figuratively).

>>>>Our concrete pad is rubber coated from doing this for 5 YEARS...and treated with VHT.
Our customers want their cars RIGHT before going to the track..Thats why we have a DYNO,thats why we have a CHASSIS TABLE,thats why we have a LAUNCH PAD..<<<<<

>>>We are a pretty large operation..In a COMERCIAL ZONED area..The racetracks are 120 miles away!!<<<<

You can't crank your stereo at 2AM nor can you parade across your lawn wearing nothing but a pair of socks just because it's "your private property" either.



You don't "need to do your job" in such a way that it would endanger the public or aggravate your neighbors when an actual race track is available to you.


>>>>People drive faster in the mall parking lot,while on thier cell phones.....Than a 10ft launch..<<<<



Tracks are zoned and approved for this activity. Is your parking lot?

I thought not.

Licensed and insured drag strips certainly don't allow race cars to perform burn-outs in their parking lots. Anyone that did would get promptly booted out. Who are you trying to fool?



My advice is to save the money you'd spend on legal fees. An appeal would overturn the judges ruling only in the event there was a legal procedural error made. The appeals court won't rule in your favor just because you didn't like or agree with the first judge's decision.

Three of my customers are officers...even they thought the ticket was bogus...
The arresting officer LIED repeatedly on the stand (about the smoke cloud,and the position of the vehicle)...


You've been a huge help......Thanks NOT

 

[Curt581]

>>>>Our concrete pad is rubber coated from doing this for 5 YEARS...and treated with VHT.
Our customers want their cars RIGHT before going to the track..Thats why we have a DYNO,thats why we have a CHASSIS TABLE,thats why we have a LAUNCH PAD..<<<<<

>>>We are a pretty large operation..In a COMERCIAL ZONED area..The racetracks are 120 miles away!!<<<<

Ah. So it's a matter of convenience, not necessity.

Tell me... does the track 120 miles away allow participants to do burnouts in the pit area or parking lot?

No?

Why not? Because it's inherently hazardous.

>>>>People drive faster in the mall parking lot,while on thier cell phones.....Than a 10ft launch..<<<<

Ahhhh, the old "Other people are doing worse stuff" defense. How original.

When your son says "But Daaaad... other kids jump off roofs into buckets of broken glass! Why can't I?".... what do you say to him?

Three of my customers are officers...even they thought the ticket was bogus...
The arresting officer LIED repeatedly on the stand (about the smoke cloud,and the position of the vehicle)...

The other officers' opinions aren't relevant. The judge's opinion IS.

Did you sufficiently refute those alleged "lies" with fact?

Apparently not.

 

[john@dyno]

When I took the stand ,the FIRST thing I said was that there was NO smoke cloud as the officer described(3 seconds of tirespin =not enough time)..Then I told the judge that the vehicle WAS NOT facing the adjacent road as said by the officer...

So basicly if the officer said I was handing heroin needles to 9 year olds ,Then I should agree and go on....

His word(lies) + a badge> joe public = justice...???

I have a witness,can he testify in the appeal that the officer was giving FALSE information..

I would have brought him to the trial IF I had known the officer was going to LIE on the stand..

 

[Zigner]

I have a witness,can he testify in the appeal that the officer was giving FALSE information..

You can't present NEW evidence at the appeal. You should have taken your witness to the original hearing/trial.

I would have brought him to the trial IF I had known the officer was going to LIE on the stand..

Your mistake will lose this case for you.

 

[racer72]

I am aware that such tickets CAN be given on private property(such as the mall,McDonalds parking lot ect..) But what about MY property where I NEED to be able to do my JOB..

Is your property marked "Private Property"? Do you have provisions to keep the general public out of your parking lot? Is it a licensed business? If the first 2 answers are no and the third yes, it's not private property in the same way your home is considered private property. Many laws and likely your license to operate the business allow police to enforce laws on your property without your consent.

 

[john@dyno]

Is your property marked "Private Property"? Do you have provisions to keep the general public out of your parking lot? Is it a licensed business? If the first 2 answers are no and the third yes, it's not private property in the same way your home is considered private property. Many laws and likely your license to operate the business allow police to enforce laws on your property without your consent.

Our parking lot is in>> front<<< of the building....marked with lines .

We test>>> beside<<< the building ...not in the parking area...

Yes we are licensed !!! We are no small outfit..

My lawer said that the appeals court would be the same as the original,but before a JURY.
And that the witness(s) will be allowed..

Mabe AR law differs from other states for appeals..??

 

[Zigner]

Our parking lot is in>> front<<< of the building....marked with lines .

We test>>> beside<<< the building ...not in the parking area...

Yes we are licensed !!! We are no small outfit..

My lawer said that the appeals court would be the same as the original,but before a JURY.
And that the witness(s) will be allowed..

Mabe AR law differs from other states for appeals..??

You have a lawyer - why are you here?

 

[john@dyno]

I'm a "hands on" kind of person...I have learned that nobody else will work as hard as "you" for you...I own my own buisness,I know this firsthand...

Besides...lawyers like to get paid to take time to talk to you...he's always in a hurry and doesnt seem to have as much focus on it as I do...

A second opinion never hurts...

And I do greatly appreciate any constructive input..

 

[itdepends]

I have a witness,can he testify in the appeal that the officer was giving FALSE information..

I would have brought him to the trial IF I had known the officer was going to LIE on the stand..

Appeals from District Court are heard as brand new cases in Circuit Court. Therefore, new evidence can be presented on appeal. If you appeal your ticket, you should be able to admit your witness's testimony as evidence.

 

[itdepends]

My lawer said that the appeals court would be the same as the original,but before a JURY.
And that the witness(s) will be allowed..

Your lawyer is correct.

 

[john@dyno]

Again , Thanks for the input.....Other than bringing the witness,what about the cop lying anout the events...??