Cited in PA for section 3111 for speeding nothing in secs timed

[nafylehc]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania

I was cited in PA for section 3111 for speeding they said I was doing 55 in a 40 which I believe that I was not doing 55 maybe 48 or so really. The officer said that he was giving me a break by citing a different section than speed (3111) and there would be no points and no insurance implications if I just plead guilty and paid. Can someone tell me if this is indeed true about no points and no insurance implications?

Also they got me from a helicopter the officer who wrote me said he never saw me as he was sitting over a hill after the timing lines, and they used some type of elaborate stopwatch to time me. on the ticket there is nothing in the Secs timed box, and in the miles followed it is either 1.0284 or .0284 (hard to read) and in the miles timed 1.81. There is no way they timed me for 1.81 miles and no way that they followed me at all any ideas.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

How could they have followed you for 1.0284 miles or even .0284 miled and yet they timed you for 1.81 miles?

 

[nafylehc]

think the ticket was not filled out properly

I think the cop put the information in the wrong boxes, i think the 1.81 should fo in the sec timed box and the .0284 in the miles timed, it sure looks like 1.0284 to me but if you do the math on .0284 miles times and use the 1.81 for secs timed it comes out to like 56 mph they said i was doing 55, so this makes sense. also i noticed in the section box they list 3111 but no subsections I think there should be an a. there for 3111(a). does any of these errors constitute the ticket being invalid , the cop also did not put the year of of vehicle either. So much for being thorough on their part.

Does anyone know if can can get to look at the cops copy of the ticket cause if it says miles times 1.0284 that make thing much different?

Thanks

 

[Maestro64]

Well it looks like you got a totally screwed up ticket there and if he cited you for speeding it would be pretty easy to win if the information you provide is in fact correct since the facts are not adding up.

If you were doing 48 in a 40 then he could not write a ticket since in PA when using any timing method there is 10MPH buffer before they can issue a citation for speeding. However you were cited for 3111 which is failure to obey a traffic control device. It is a catch all fine and the officer can justify issuing it for any number of reasons.

I highly doubt they were using a helicopter, they is pretty expense way to catch speeders, they some times use airplanes but usually do that for distance greater then 150ft more like 1/2 mile on highways not local roads.

On the ticket is should have state what they used to measured your speed, what did they record, if this information is missing then you definitely could have a winner if you know what you are doing.

Since the officer clearly stated to you that he never observed you and they used another officer to make the observation and measurement, both officer must show at court to win. If they both do not show then you can request a dismissal since the witness against you is not present. If you do more research on this you can find out what to do with a hearsay ticket.

 

[nafylehc]

No it really was helicopter

No it really was a helicopter, I saw the helicopter hovering so they really did use one, they had some big speed trap that day and said they did clocked me at 55 so the numbers do add up, but he put them in the wrong boxes on the ticket. I guess I will fight it and from what I know both officers would need to be there like you said and the would have to bring the certificate on the calibration of the device they used and see what happens. Worst case is if I lose I pay a little more due to the court costs which isn't much more. The cop just said they clocked me and when I asked with what he basically said it was a an elaborate stop watch and they know how far apart the lines are on the road. I believe that I was only doing about 48 or 49, but mot really sure as I was actually looking at the helicopter in the distance, I thought it was a news chopper.

thanks

 

[Maestro64]

Since your confident they were using a helicopter, there is couple of things you can do like you already know both officers must show. Here is a few things to think about, the distance they measured you over, how did they know it was 150ft who measured it and can they prove it was 150th. Many times someone told them it was 150Ft no one ever measured it.

The method they used to measure your speed must have been VASCAR or a stopwatch like Robic Accutrack speed clock. (RobicTimers) If they did not write the method on the ticket then they got a problem because they must prove what they used and the serial number of the unit. This is required to properly identify the cal certs. If this information is not on the ticket any cal cert they provide is suspect because how does the court know it was the equipment used to measured your speed.

This could be all mute point since your not cited for speeding but 3111, in this case all the officer has to prove is he believe you failure to comply, but if he never observed you speeding violated a traffic control device then it is hearsay and you back to having both officers being there.

 

[nafylehc]

Thanks for the info, I have no doubt that both officers will be there I mean since they went through the trouble of renting a helicopter to do this speed trap and I am sure they gave out a ton of tickets that there would be many people that plead not guilty. So they would make an effort to be there, this was not a major city or anything this was a small department so they had to put out some $$$ for the helicopter. I do not understand why they would give me a break in all honesty, I think it is some ploy in that something that they did would make actually citing me for speeding not hold up in court so they tell you that you are getting a break and they expect you to just pay and not bother pleading not guilty, at least that it my feeling. thanks again

 

[Maestro64]

If you actually got caught in the last few weeks of Sept, it really did not cost them any money. This was PA's Smooth Operator Campaign, where the State and Fed paid for over time and for off duty officers to work and any other expense they incur during these weeks for writing tickets. So the city and town have an incentive to write as many tickets as they can since they will get to keep all the fees and it does not cost them anything extra.

With that said, there is no guaranty both will show, since most people who fight tickets have no clue that both need to show. Most come in with a hope and a excuse will get them out of the ticket and the police and judge know this.

I even witness where none of the officers showed and the chief was the only one there testifying on what his officer did in hopes the person would accepted it or plead to a lesser offense, until someone call the chief out and realize the chief was not one who wrote the ticket. At that point the judge dismissed the ticket.

The point I am making plan for everything, there is no guarantees either way.