Cop pulled me over and messed up the citation report.

[Ice Vox]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Rhode Island

Hey all,
I’m in a bit of a jam a far as the traffic police are concerned and I was hoping someone could help or at lest tell me the odds of getting this thing thrown out. Here’s my story:

First of all, I don’t want anyone getting the wrong idea about me. I am a minor, and for the most part, a law abiding citizen. I made one fairly decent mistake and that’s what caused all this. On Thursday 11/13, I bought a used car from someone I met online. I took it for a ride, checked out the engine… etc. Worked great, still does. Since I heard that I have 2 business days in my state to get it registered, I figured it would be ok to drive it (after putting my old plates on it), and it was. My mistake came into play when, for the sake of organization, I kept all the car’s documents in a folder at my house awaiting my trip to the registry to get this car legally on the road. I didn’t count on getting pulled over by a cop, but when I did yesterday, I obviously could not produce the bill of sale/old registration, etc. Therefore, it was within my rights to drive the car, I just didn’t have the documents of proof, which I admit was completely my fault.

So… I was pulled over for speeding, and subsequently ticketed for speeding, operation of an unregistered motor vehicle, and operating without a seat belt. Now… yes, I was technically operating the vehicle illegally… yes, I was not wearing a seat belt, but I was not speeding, and I am sure of it. Although the people in the car with me were my friends, I trust them to tell me the truth when I ask them to, and they, too agreed with me. Why did he pull me over then? I can’t say for sure, but I do have a valid theory. First of all, this cop is a MAJOR a*****e… In fact, one of my friends in the car with me had a restraining order against him at one point (too bad that expired lol), but that’s not why I think he got me. I was not the only car on the road, and he was a good quarter mile away when he pegged me with the radar gun. I suppose it’s possible the reading he took was from another car, but it’s irrelevant. I can’t prove I wasn’t speeding. However, he did make several mistakes when filling out the citation… mistakes that I believe can be used to my advantage. I have attached a modified version of the report at the following address:

ImageShack - Hosting :: pictureht7.jpg

Now first of all, the time is incorrect… off by a half hour at least. Where I am, school doesn’t get out until 1:52, and I can, without difficulty, get two teachers to place me at the school until 2:00, and possibly get myself on video camera (if the tapes are still saved and the school is willing to surrender them). I will ask the teachers to write up affidavits for me and I’m sure that they will because like I said, I’m not a troublemaker: most teachers like me. That’s my first question… how can I get an affidavit from them (assuming that they will cooperate) that will be legally allowable in court? (by the way, I have a court date on January 8th)

Secondly… I know it’s a small matter of semantics… but please look at that “JUV” box that is unchecked. Does that mean “juvenile”? Because I am under 18 ATM and perhaps he should have checked that off and didn’t.

Third, (and I believe most importantly) he gave me the only copy of the report that I signed (I am positive that I did not sign two, and also notice the “court copy” at the very bottom). Since he does not have my signature, he does not have my acknowledgment that I am supposed to appear in court on the aforementioned date. I believe this is a big problem for their case against me. The only thing is… I’m afraid that by showing up at court I acknowledge that I knew I was supposed to be there. Am I better off not going? Please help. Believe me, this was all a mistake and I shouldn’t have even been pulled over in the first place. Can I get off the speeding/not buckled citations? The unregistered vehicle citation (if I can prove I purchased the car just 2 business days before)? Or even possibly (and I know I’m really pushing my luck with this one) get reimbursed for the towing fee that I was forced to pay once my plates were confiscated? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for reading, I’m sorry it’s so long.

 

[FlyingRon]

None of the straws you are grasping at are going to matter in court.

 

[Ice Vox]

no offense but if you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post. I admit that it's possible that the wrong time MIGHT not matter. I admit that not checking that "JUV" box may not mean anything, but for the love of god, the police have nothing to prove that I'm aware that I'm supposed to appear in court, and you're saying that doesn't matter? FFS... that's like not issuing someone a subpoena and still expecting them to show up in court... Either you're a cop or just plain clueless. You also haven't told me how to get a legally allowable affidavit from someone. So congratz, you get the "thank you for wasting my time" award.

 

[You Are Guilty]

no offense but if you don't know what you're talking about, please don't post. I admit that it's possible that the wrong time MIGHT not matter. I admit that not checking that "JUV" box may not mean anything, but for the love of god, the police have nothing to prove that I'm aware that I'm supposed to appear in court, and you're saying that doesn't matter? FFS... that's like not issuing someone a subpoena and still expecting them to show up in court... Either you're a cop or just plain clueless. You also haven't told me how to get a legally allowable affidavit from someone. So congratz, you get the "thank you for wasting my time" award.

Please be sure to come back after your court date and let us, and future readers, know how it went.

 

[dolebot]

None of the straws you are grasping at are going to matter in court.

QFT

Seriously. None of those little procedural things will make a lick of difference.

Here is how the conversation might go in court:

judge dredd: "Ice Vox present your case:"
Ice Vox: "Your honor, the citation lists an incorrect time: I'm in school until 2:00pm at least."
judge dredd: "OK, were you driving an improperly registered 94 Nissan at 40mph without your seatbelt on Whipple Avenue on the afternoon of 17 November?"
Ice Vox: "No, your honor I wasn't speeding, I was driving at 25mph. But I was not wearing my seatbelt, and I didn't have the car registered properly. Your honor but the time on the ticket is when I'm actually in school, I have tapes and teachers to back me up. Also the Officer didn't check the JUV box on the citation indicating that I'm a juvenile".
judge dredd: "I can tell that by your age. The time on the citation is meaningless."

The officer does NOT need your signature to do anything at all. He can charge you with a crime without it. The signature is a formality and doesn't bind anything.

By signing you acknowledged that you have received and read the summons (ticket), and that the above is true. If you were due in court you understand that failing to appear is an admission of guilt.

Nowhere does it say "I acknowledge that I am due in court on such and such a date." By not going you will get the full penalty and waive any right to a defense.

 

[InsaneJane]

The time is very important, and if you don't show up they will find you guilty.
I would recommend bringing your witnesses along with a statement from your teacher and anyone else...
When you talk to the DA be prepared to put your hands in your pockets if they attemp to give you a revised ticket. The DA probably will admit that they don't have an original copy of the ticket. Get advice on what to do about that. Some states they will have to drop it when you as the court to let you see it, and they can't produce it???
As for the registration, produce what you have and tell the Judge that you thought you had 2 days and were doing it at your soonest....
As for the towing, I'd refrane from mentioning it. If you are found not guilty by the Judge, then you can latter consider sending the bill to the town, but that may not be worth the hassles.
I'm also not sure if it is propper in your state to attach plates from one vehicle to another...
If the DA ask's how you ended up with all of those tickets, tell them you think the officer made a mistake.
In this case it looks like he may have made several, and with the time being off the Judge will probably go for that. Be glad he messed up!
As for the seat belt, it is common for drives to have to un buckle their belt to get papper work together or pull out their ID in prep for the Police officer walking up to the car.

 

[FlyingRon]

Other than the "if you don't show up they'll find you guilty" none of InsaneJane's post makes any sense at all (as usual).

Putting your hands in your pockets isn't going to do anything. You don't need to take the paper to be charged or have the charges revised.

They have no proof of registration because the car is NOT registered.
They have already indicated they were not buckled up. Most likely this was observed by the police long before they started producing documents.

The only thing that the time issue would likely make a difference is if this was a school zone or something where the speed limit changes based on that time.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

I obviously could not produce the bill of sale/old registration, etc.

Obviously, that was because you did not have the "proper" bill of sale/NEW registration

Therefore, it was within my rights to drive the car

No it wasn't... At least not in public.... I don’t care how much you trivialize it...

I just didn’t have the documents of proof

Well, it was not just about the documents, it's also about paying fees, taxes; it's about having a legal license plate that belongs to the car the is being driven illegally driven, it is about wearing your seatbelt at all times and it is also about an alleged speeding violation.

which I admit was completely my fault.

Very big of you to take ownership of your mistakes... Nice of you to share!!!!

End of Thread!

I was not speeding, and I am sure of it.

Have you had the speedometer checked?
may be you should do that.
And by the way, if it is out of calibration, it is not a way to get the speeding charge dismissed.

Although the people in the car with me were my friends, I trust them to tell me the truth when I ask them to, and they, too agreed with me.

Are the people who were in the car with you able to estimate speed without looking at the speedometer or were they staring at speedometer the entire time?

Moving along... I’m not sure if I understand what happened exactly or what you‘re claiming as far the signature… plus, that image that you posted isn’t clear enough to make heads or tails out of it (all I could see was scribbles). I’ll still post this anyway but keep in mind that I am not familiar at all with the Rhode Island vehicle code or how courts work on that side of the country so take my comments with a grain of salt

Third, (and I believe most importantly) he gave me the only copy of the report that I signed (I am positive that I did not sign two, and also notice the “court copy” at the very bottom).

Who told you there were only two copies? --- Hold that thought for a second!

Correct me if I'm wrong but the officer handed you the Citation book, showed you where to sign, you signed it, handed it back to him, (he tore off one of the copies), he handed you the citation, or actually a copy of the citation (albeit the copy which was supposed to get filed in Court) and sent you on your way, right?

Traffic citations generally come in what’s called “carbonless form” and each citation is usually in triplicates (some law enforcement agencies use quadruplets). One copy goes to the Court, one is given to the driver and the third stays with the officer.

The officer does not have to complete 2 or 3 separate forms. Similarly, you sign once, (not twice) obviously on the top copy and in the same way that the officer’s notations appear on all copies of the citation, your signature transfers to the other 2 copies as well.

Now, the officer obviously gave you the copy marked “Court Copy” (usually, the court gets the topmost/“clearest” copy) but that by no means should suggest that they could not use the 2nd or even the 3 rd. I‘ve heard of instances where the entire file was misplaced by someone at the court, they contacted the issuing law enforcement agency and requested a photo copy of the officer’s copy.

My advice is you better show up in court on or before the date that appears on the citation. You can even call the court a week or two before your scheduled date. That way you can confirm that it was in fact filed.

Since he does not have my signature, he does not have my acknowledgment that I am supposed to appear in court on the aforementioned date. I believe this is a big problem for their case against me.

If that is their biggest problem… Then you’ve got problems!
It’s not that “big” of a problem!
Like I said earlier, I couldn’t read anything on that image of the citation so I’m not sure what you’re attesting to by signing. California citations and when signed by the defendant, he/she is making a “promise to appear” on the date and time shown on the same citation, failing to do so can and will subject you to a variety of different remedies.

Even if you did not sign all copies, you still can be placed at the scene of the violation, the officer will testify to that under oath; as for specifically identifying you it will be as easy as the court clerk calling your name in open court, when you stand up and walk to the defendant table, the officer is asked if the person he cited that day is present in court…. And you will have a finger (fore-finger) as well as a bunch of eyes looking at you as the officer says “he’s right there”. Are you going to deny signing anything that day? While you’re under oath? Perjure yourself in court!

Please help. Believe me, this was all a mistake

Uhm… Whose mistake? Every time you get in any car, it is your responsibility to ensure that it is “street legal”. You made an assumption based on information that was incorrect… “Ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law”. You are only 19 but I’m sure you already know that with privileges come responsibilities and in this case, you dropped the ball. You admit that… and I’ll pat you on the back for standing up and owning up to it, but in all honesty it was not one mistake, or two, or three…

I shouldn’t have even been pulled over in the first place.

Hahahaha… let me see…
1. Driving a car that is not registered in your name…
2. Driving the same vehicle in #1 above without any sort of proof or documentation that you bought it or even “borrowed it“ for that matter! In fact, you had no documentation in the car whatsoever.
3. Driving the same vehicle in #1 & #2 while displaying license plates belonging to another. (This would be considered “Registration Fraud” in California; THAT is a MISDEMEANOR; punishable by a hefty fine and a few days in lock up!!!)
4. All while not wearing your seatbelt
5. … And, allegedly “Speeding”!

Did I miss anything?
Honestly, the cop whom you referred to as a MAJOR a*****e… and in my opinion, gave you a MAJOR break! But that’s just me…

I know I’m really pushing my luck with this one) get reimbursed for the towing fee that I was forced to pay once my plates were confiscated?

Pushing your luck? PUSHING YOUR LUCK? Can you please elaborate…
Was the car towed unfairly? No, you had plates on it that did not belong there.
Were your plates confiscated unfairly or without due cause? Again, no,… you had the wrong plates on the wrong car.
I don’t see any reference to anyone except “YOU” in that last paragraph thereby leading any reasonable person to suggest that “YOU: should bear the cost of getting your unregistered car off the roads.

 

[The Occultist]

OP, have you never heard of "carbon copies"? It's a magical thing where anything you write on the top page is magically, instantly copied onto the similar documents beneath it. The police department in my town have citation books that will make 5 copies of everything they write. NEAT!

By the way, you continue your attitude, and nobody on this board will help you. Flying Ron is a very knowledgeable poster and has helped quite a few people; continue insulting such senior members is not a wise move.

Also, keep something else in mind: just because the answers given don't match to what you believe they should be doesn't mean the answers are incorrect.