Devil’s advocate

[Leviticus]

It’s time for me to play devil’s advocate.
You guys know whose side I usually take in these matters.
It’s time for a role reversal. It’s time for you to defend the speeder!

When I was in court the other day I witnessed a speeding ticket dismissal
based soley on the fact that the officer forgot to include a fine on the ticket.

I have a couple of questions for you.
Firstly, why does the court do this?
Secondly, do you think this is the right thing for the court to do?

 

[seniorjudge]

It’s time for me to play devil’s advocate.
You guys know whose side I usually take in these matters.
It’s time for a role reversal. It’s time for you to defend the speeder!

When I was in court the other day I witnessed a speeding ticket dismissal
based soley on the fact that the officer forgot to include a fine on the ticket.

I have a couple of questions for you.
Firstly, why does the court do this?
Secondly, do you think this is the right thing for the court to do?

I suspect you are mistaken; officers do not levy/assess fines.

Something else happened and you are misinterpreting it.

 

[Leviticus]

I suspect you are mistaken; officers do not levy/assess fines.

Something else happened and you are misinterpreting it.

At the bottom of the certificate of offence among the various boxes, there are two with the following headings:

SET FINE OF: and TOTAL PAYABLE:

It's in these boxes that the officer writes the fine amount.

 

[CdwJava]

Seniorjudge,

As odd as it is for me to understand, in some states officers write in the assessed value of the fine on the cite.

- Carl

 

[seniorjudge]

Seniorjudge,

As odd as it is for me to understand, in some states officers write in the assessed value of the fine on the cite.

- Carl

Okay...that's a new one on me!

 

[loulblades]

In PA, the citation has boxes to write in fines and fees and makes it easier to plead guilty by sending in the amount written on the ticket. Leaving this info off would be like not properly filling out the paperwork and would provide a potential grounds for dismissal.

 

[Leviticus]

In PA, the citation has boxes to write in fines and fees and makes it easier to plead guilty by sending in the amount written on the ticket. Leaving this info off would be like not properly filling out the paperwork and would provide a potential grounds for dismissal.

Leaving the info off would not be "like" not properly filling out the paperwork
it would be not properly filling out the paperwork.

I know this would provide a potential grounds for dismissal.
In the case I referred to, they actually did dismiss the ticket.

So far however, no one has answered my two basic questions:
Firstly, why does the court do this? (dismiss the ticket)
Secondly, do you think this is the right thing for the court to do?

 

[CdwJava]

You'd have to ask the court why they do it. Different states have different laws on the issue, and different judges may exercise discretion in different ways.

If dismissal is an option in the situation, then the judge has that choice as part of his discretion. If by statute in that state the citation cannot be lawfully filed if this information is left off, then there is no choice.

Whether it is "right" or not depends on your point of view and the law of the state in question. I'm sure that the defendant would think it the right thing to do ... the cop might not.

- Carl

 

[Leviticus]

You'd have to ask the court why they do it. Different states have different laws on the issue, and different judges may exercise discretion in different ways.

Actually the court/judge didn't dismiss the ticket, the prosecution withdrew the charge!!! There was a paralegal standing close by and probably 'suggested' (wink wink) to the prosecution that they withdraw the charge.

Whether it is "right" or not depends on your point of view and the law of the state in question. I'm sure that the defendant would think it the right thing to do ... the cop might not.

- Carl

You'd make a darn good politician Carl if you ever left your police job!
It's the second time you've ducked the question. What do you think?

 

[CdwJava]

You'd make a darn good politician Carl if you ever left your police job!
It's the second time you've ducked the question. What do you think?

I may make a run for Sheriff one day ... Maybe the Assembly. Who knows?

But, until then, it's a moot point for me. In MY state we don't put the fines on the citations so the issue of leaving it off the citation is not one we deal with. Therefore, since I do not know the legal background, thought, or law behind a dismissal of a citation from an unnamed state, I cannot offer an opinion. I can think of reasons why I'd be all for it, and reasons I'd be against it. But none of them would be based on logic or on the law, they would be based solely upon my feelings for the moment.

So, I will offer up the proverbial, "No comment."



- Carl

 

[justalayman]

I may make a run for Sheriff one day ... Maybe the Assembly. Who knows?
.
So, I will offer up the proverbial, "No comment."
- Carl

I think Leviticus may be on to something Carl

Do you have a strange accent or previous acting experience or a big time singer girlfriend? I'm not sure but I think something like this may be a requirement to run for the governorship of California.

 

[CdwJava]

I think Leviticus may be on to something Carl

Do you have a strange accent or previous acting experience or a big time singer girlfriend? I'm not sure but I think something like this may be a requirement to run for the governorship of California.

Let's see ... no, yes, no (but I wish ... if my wife would let me).

- Carl

 

[loulblades]

I said potential because the judge/magistrate has their own discretionary input. I also said potential because I didn't want to offend the sensibilities of several posters who jump on the idea that citations can be amended in realtime when info is left off.

IMHO when the citation (or warrant or other paperwork) is not properly filled out, it should be deemed defective and the charges dismissed. Of course it is generally up to the accussed or their lawyer to bring this up. So my question would be; If defective paperwork is filed against someone by the state, why wouldn't (or shouldn't) the charges be dismissed? The officer or prosecutor didn't do their job properly. Lawyers look for these mistakes everyday to get their clients "off the hook". Yes I know, some would say this is a "technicality" and they would be right.

In the case you mentioned where the prosecutor dropped the charges, he may not have wanted to be admonished by the judge for bringing him/her defective paperwork.

 

[CdwJava]

It depends on how relevant the missing information is. Having the wrong color eyes, or describing the car as green when it is blue are not likely to be considered "defective." Missing the license plate or driver's license number just might do it, though.

Simply missing information is not sufficient on its face to dismiss a complaint ... it would depend on the relevence of the information the law of that particular state.

- Carl

 

[Leviticus]

It depends on how relevant the missing information is. Having the wrong color eyes, or describing the car as green when it is blue are not likely to be considered "defective." Missing the license plate or driver's license number just might do it, though.

Simply missing information is not sufficient on its face to dismiss a complaint ... it would depend on the relevence of the information the law of that particular state.

- Carl

Carl the reason I started this thread was to point out that an obviously irrelevant matter to a speeding charge (missing fine on ticket) was sufficient to cause a prosecutor to withdraw charges for a ticket. The prosecution stated why they were withdrawing the charge, so there was no confusion on this aspect.

So, something as irrelevant as missing fine,
*can* be considered a 'defect' on a ticket, and *is* sufficient to dismiss a ticket, depending where you live. It happened, in real life, believe me.